New Speed Controller Announced

[Russ Beavis]

As the Chief Inspector, I feel obligated to point out that bumpers (per the 2008 robot rules) are only allowed to weigh up to 3 ounces per inch of length. Unfortunately, the cRIO weighs 3.12 ounces per inch.

Sorry. You can't use the cRIO as a bumper.

Russ

[Sam N.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ikgguMKqBk

I'm very distressed because they're very large. Victors were tall but didn't have a very large footprint.

Jaguar footprints seem to be more than twice that of Victors'.

[billbo911]

Originally Posted by Sam N.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ikgguMKqBk

I'm very distressed because they're very large. Victors were tall but didn't have a very large footprint.

Jaguar footprints seem to be more than twice that of Victors'.

Here is the key to relieving your stress. Consider the size of the Jaguar as just another design constraint.

[Joe Ross]

Just for the heck of it, I found the specs for the speed controller that was used before the Victor, the Tekin Rebel. It is 1.8x1.4x1.1 inches. That makes the Victor (2.7x2.2x2.1 in) approximately twice the size of the Tekin Rebel.

I then searched the 1999 and 2000 forums of chiefdelphi, and didn't see a single person complaining about the size of the Victor.

The Victors were so much better then the Tekins that no one cared that they were bigger. Based on the data and specs of the Jaguars, I think they will be so much better that in 2 years, no one will care that they are bigger then the Victors.

[Aren_Hill]

from what i can tell (i'm mostly mech) the pro's of this new controller should be a big enough improvement for the extra space to be worth it to design around. The response and smoothness that apparently is there will be really nice for drivers as it should smooth out the low speed precision maneuvers that are often required.

(i still love victors though)

[Kingofl337]

The jump to from the Victors to the Jaguars is small compared to the change from the Tekin to the Victors. The Tekin's used to constantly suffer from spontaneous combustion, it was extremely frustrating how often they would go.

The Victors have been very solid throughout their tenure. For non PID related control I don't think we really need much more. But, for control loops the Jaguars sound like a godsend. Allot will also depend on the cost of one vs the other.

[AustinSchuh]

Originally Posted by Kingofl337

But, for control loops the Jaguars sound like a godsend.

Ok. Now you have me interested. Could you explain your logic?

[EricVanWyk]

Originally Posted by AustinSchuh

Ok. Now you have me interested. Could you explain your logic?

The Jaguar has several interesting features aimed at tighter control loops. Unfortunately, only some of these will be useable this year.

1) The speed vs input command is linear. The Victor is highly non-linear, which prompted many teams to wrap a linearizing function around it.

2) The update rate is faster.

3) The chop rate is much faster.

* Features not yet accesible to teams *

4) The processor in the Jaguar is about an order of magnitude more powerful than the entirety of the old control system in terms of raw math throughput.

5) Direct quadrature encoder input

6) Analog input - for POTs?

7) True voltage control - This translates to direct speed control.

8) True current control - This translates to direct torque control.

9) High speed serial (CAN) communication to the cRIO which will allow you to send higher level commands

10) On-board PID loops.

http://www.reuters.com/article/press...08+PRN20080805

I'm excited.

[jskene]

Not to mention:

- integrated limit switch inputs
- instantaneous current monitoring (this feature would have saved our team several $100 Victors)
- instantaneous temperature monitoring

[samir13k]

Originally Posted by Travis Hoffman

I really like the feature set of these, but my primary questions are....

....how many do we get in the kit, and how much will additional units cost?

It looks like we are going to get 4 jaguar's in the kit, and their cost is 92.50 before the FIRST discount.

[samir13k]

can anyone email me a inventor file of the new jaguar?

samir13k@hotmail.com

I cant seem to find any inventor models of the new parts. I am currently working on a model of the cRio, but it will probably take me up to 2 more days.

[utlinebacker]

Hello,

This is my first post to Chief Delphi, but it is certainly an important one!

My name is Scott Emley, and I am the product marketing manager at Luminary Micro. This seems to be the highest concentration of FRC teams and mentors, so this is where I am starting on getting the word out:

Luminary Micro has partnered with Digi-Key to make available the new Jaguar (MDL-BDC) speed controller to all FRC teams! Of course, you will receive a predetermined number of Jaguar speed controllers in your KoP distribution, and this program is designed to provide FRC teams exclusive access to additional speed controllers for a >30% discount to the normal resale price. The Jaguar discount program is only available to FRC teams and only through Digi-Key by visiting: http://sales.digikey.com/dkes/FirstRoboticsCompetition.asp


To qualify for the discount, you must enter in your team information, a shipping address within the general geographical location (state/country) of your team, and you must enter a valid phone number so the FRC Order Team at Digi-Key can validate your identity and thus honor your discount request.

It is important you remember to use the Digi-Key link above – or you will be like the rest of the world and have to pay full price. Don’t be distracted because Luminary Micro has several worldwide distributors (including Digi-Key) that will be carrying the Jaguar at full price.

By the way, Luminary Micro has unveiled the Jaguar to the rest of the world as a reference design, and now is a good time to remind teams that, while you might read or realize the full potential of the Jaguar on Luminary Micro’s website, the official FRC 2009 game rules (or restrictions for that matter) have not been announced. More explicitly, I discourage you from monkeying with the firmware on the Jaguar ---- even though you might be tempted. (I'm an engineer... I understand this temptation.)

As far as documentation is concerned, I've just uploaded the first revision of the Jaguar Getting Started Guide on the Jaguar microsite at http://www.luminarymicro.com/jaguar. I'll keep referring to this site for the latest documentation regarding the Jaguar, so I encourage you to bookmark the link.

Looking forward to supporting you guys this year.

Best Regards,
Scott

P.S. I see #47 all over the place on this forum... and I love it!

[utlinebacker]

Originally Posted by samir13k

can anyone email me a inventor file of the new jaguar?

samir13k@hotmail.com

I cant seem to find any inventor models of the new parts. I am currently working on a model of the cRio, but it will probably take me up to 2 more days.

I forgot to mention: I went ahead and uploaded the Jaguar's IGES file on the Jaguar microsite at http://www.luminarymicro.com/jaguar.

Regards,
Scott

[Tristan Lall]

Scott, I've quoted your post on the FIRST Forums (http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=10418), so that teams who miss this thread will have another shot at finding the appropriate Jaguar information.

FIRST has been asking the control system beta test teams to aggregate their own information there, so it would be worth duplicating future postings on the subject to that forum as well.

[Qbranch]

Originally Posted by utlinebacker

I forgot to mention: I went ahead and uploaded the Jaguar's IGES file on the Jaguar microsite at http://www.luminarymicro.com/jaguar.

Regards,
Scott

Scott/utLB,

Thanks for your efforts in helping out FIRST kids worldwide!

I have a question about your company. Do you guys manufacture/fab your own parts or do you guys do the design and somebody else does the fab?

I'm a hardcore microchip lover so I don't think I'll ever stop (in the forseeable future) using them, but for high performance motion control applications, your products are very interesting... especially the ability to get parts that are both communications powerful and still incorporate a good assortment of motion control components.

I don't want to get this thread too off topic, so I'll make my last question short... do your parts come in a QFN or other itty bitty surface mount package?

Thanks,

q