Early Bird Control System

[Jeff Pahl]

Originally Posted by Nuttyman54

I don't actually know the name of the tan ones we've been getting recently, but very few people that have used the old standbys like them better.

I don't know the name of the tan ones either, and most of the names I've heard used for them are not suitable for this forum...

We used to check the local Goodwill and thrift stores on a regular basis to pick up old high-quality joysticks. I'm glad that will be a thing of the past.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Nuttyman54

The pre-2004 black joysticks you refer too are these Flightsticks we speak of. I don't actually know the name of the tan ones we've been getting recently, but very few people that have used the old standbys like them better.

I believe those were also known as Flightsticks. The older ones had the designation "CH" in front. And the teams that had the newer ones--well, some teams didn't like them much--too loose, or not ambidextrous, or too many buttons, or something like that, so they modified them appropriately or went to something else entirely. The older black sticks (some were black and tan/white/gray) have been used by those who don't like the most recent ones.

[Billfred]

So given the cult following the Flightsticks have, has anyone tested the USB-based Flightstick Pro that CH Products still produces with the new driver's station? It seems that they've dropped the standard USB Flightstick, but it seemed like there were a lot more of them in odd shops and eBay than there were gameport ones back in 2004 and 2005 when everyone was scrambling to find the latter.

[Brandon Holley]

Originally Posted by EricH

Every REALLY old "old-timer" is going to miss the sticks before those! Yep, the single-button, single-trigger, ambidextrous ones that came pre-2004 were missed (and used at every opportunity possible by those who had them and didn't like the ones provided).

Eric, the black single trigger, single button sticks, are the ones I refer to as "fightsticks"....they say it directly on them

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by Nuttyman54

I don't actually know the name of the tan ones we've been getting recently, but very few people that have used the old standbys like them better.

Those off-white right-hand-only joysticks are labeled "A/B". I typically called them the "POS" joysticks, though. They're capable of being modified to work well, but out of the box they are...poor.

[wilsonmw04]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

Those off-white right-hand-only joysticks are labeled "A/B". I typically called them the "POS" joysticks, though. They're capable of being modified to work well, but out of the box they are...poor.

Agreed. When trying to use them for tank drive they are just plain "Bad."
The new Attack 3 sticks look much better. I'll know more when my team pulls them out of the box tomorrow.

[Qbranch]

I'll be very interested to see how the new fuseblock does under high current loads... PC boards have amazed me in the past with how much current traces can handle, but... I just don't know. 4 cims running at max fuse current. That can happen for a few moments as you're accelerating... I'll be interested to see if the voltage supply to the motors drops a rediculous amount. I mean, that's 160A trying to push through a PC board... the same thing we use a giant block of gold plated copper to do now. Just seems like either we're WAY overdoing it with the current maxi block, or the PC board will be overwhelmed... anyone care to offer their opinion on this?

What are the little blue things to the right of the OI panel (there are three of them sitting on black antistatic bags)?

I can hardly wait for us to get ours... I so want to see how much of the vision tools suite they gave teams.

-q

[ebmonon36]

Originally Posted by Qbranch

What are the little blue things to the right of the OI panel (there are three of them sitting on black antistatic bags)?

-q

Those are the analog and pneumatic breakouts (formerly called bumpers)

[Eugene Fang]

Originally Posted by Qbranch

What are the little blue things to the right of the OI panel (there are three of them sitting on black antistatic bags)?

Originally Posted by ebmonon36

Those are the analog and pneumatic breakouts (formerly called bumpers)

Two are analog breakouts and one is a solenoid breakout

[Joe Ross]

Originally Posted by Qbranch

I'll be very interested to see how the new fuseblock does under high current loads... PC boards have amazed me in the past with how much current traces can handle, but... I just don't know. 4 cims running at max fuse current. That can happen for a few moments as you're accelerating... I'll be interested to see if the voltage supply to the motors drops a rediculous amount. I mean, that's 160A trying to push through a PC board... the same thing we use a giant block of gold plated copper to do now. Just seems like either we're WAY overdoing it with the current maxi block, or the PC board will be overwhelmed... anyone care to offer their opinion on this?

I have not heard any of the beta teams having any problems with the PD board. In our case, the voltage drop seems no worse then the old system. I know FIRST did current measurements of real robots during real matches to make sure everything was designed to handle the real loads.

Originally Posted by Qbranch

I can hardly wait for us to get ours... I so want to see how much of the vision tools suite they gave teams.

You don't have to wait to start reading. http://decibel.ni.com/content/docs/DOC-2453#cf

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by Qbranch

I'll be very interested to see how the new fuseblock does under high current loads...

Erik (the designer of the new Power Distribution board) told me this morning that it stayed perfectly cool under conditions that made the main breaker too hot to touch. It has very thick copper.

[NickE]

Originally Posted by Brandon Holley

any "old timer" in FIRST is going to miss those flight sticks, nothing too flashy, just a solid piece of equipment

You don't have to miss them. (assuming you have them or can find a place to buy them) We have been using our old flightsticks with success on our beta bot, and it gives us a faster boot up time than when using usb joysticks.

[Brandon Holley]

Originally Posted by NickE

You don't have to miss them. (assuming you have them or can find a place to buy them) We have been using our old flightsticks with success on our beta bot, and it gives us a faster boot up time than when using usb joysticks.

We have them, but from what I understand there is currently no place to purchase them, which would technically make them an illegal item, according to last years rules concerning COTS items.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by Brandon Holley

We have them, but from what I understand there is currently no place to purchase them, which would technically make them an illegal item, according to last years rules concerning COTS items.

Why were they legal the last 4 seasons then? I agree with your reasoning, but there was a separate rule that allowed them I beleive.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

Why were they legal the last 4 seasons then? I agree with your reasoning, but there was a separate rule that allowed them I beleive.

<R36> comes the closest. Why: It can be argued that it is a COTS mechanism (e.g., the handle could be removed and replaced without damage (I think--correct me if I'm wrong)). While it is not commercially available anymore, <R36> covered that. Let's go through the conditions:
--Unmodified and in original condition.
--Not custom made for FRC and provided in the KOP. (While they were KOP items, they weren't custom for FRC.)
--Satisfy all rules (that aren't <R36>) for the year.

If it passes all of them, it's legal for the 2008 season.

It remains to be seen whether or not this will change in 2009.