Need for Aluminum Gears and Sprockets?

[Teched3]

Would love to have a source of #25 sprockets, 15 to 20 tooth hubbed, and 32 to 40 flat for our drives. And if they are as strong as steel, and as light as aluminum, there should be a lot of demand. However, delivery time would be crucial.

[R.C.]

I am getting great feedback. He has great products and the tolerance with be +-.001 if needed or +-.002. We would probably stick with the AndyMark bolt pattern. He will be including

-#25 and #35 tooth sprockets (Hub and Hubless)
-Quality as good as Martin or Boston Gears
-Keep 3/8th face width, 20dp, 14.5 degree pressure angle
-If hexing is needed (upon request)
-Pricing will probably be around Andy's, a bit more due to the material.
-Pretty sure he can arrange something for shipping, kinda like McMaster Carr.

The only thing is that he likes to mass produce. But he does custom orders overnight (just charges a tad more).

[Greg Needel]

I would like to see some hubbed sprockets in 26, 28, 30, and 32 teeth. ideally with a .5 hex bore but a .5 standard bore would be fine to. This would allow teams who want to run live axles the ability to do so without needing to couple their sprockets to the wheels.

[sdcantrell56]

I would definitely be interested as long as prices are reasonable. If he can keep prices anywhere near andymark prices then it would be a definite hit.

It would be great if he could make aluminum versions of the andymark shifter gears to cut down weight. Also if he could make a kit of 2 gears to increase the reduction in the andymark shifter without adding an extra stage of reduction. Something like a 60 tooth output gear with the dog pattern and a 52 tooth input gear on the first stage. Those numbers were just a guess but An upgrade for the andymark shifters for more reduction would be awesome.

I also think focusing more on hubbed sprockets would be better since flat sprockets already exist from andymark and they work well as is. A high quality hubbed, hex-keyed sprocket however would be perfect and we would definitely buy them.

Originally Posted by sdcantrell56

I also think focusing more on hubbed sprockets would be better since flat sprockets already exist from andymark and they work well as is. A high quality hubbed, hex-keyed sprocket however would be perfect and we would definitely buy them.

Hate to be a bubble burster, but this would put material costs way up. In order to have a hub, you need round (or square) that is greater than the outside diameter of the sprocket. If you have no hub, then it would be simple to machine it out of plate. If a hub is really needed, then why not machine a nice little 6061 spacer and bolt it to the flat sprocket? It'll end up costing you less in materials, and can easily be done on a manual mill...

[Tristan Lall]

Originally Posted by CraigHickman

Hate to be a bubble burster, but this would put material costs way up. In order to have a hub, you need round (or square) that is greater than the outside diameter of the sprocket. If you have no hub, then it would be simple to machine it out of plate. If a hub is really needed, then why not machine a nice little 6061 spacer and bolt it to the flat sprocket? It'll end up costing you less in materials, and can easily be done on a manual mill...

Is it worth making a two-piece sprocket (i.e. hub plus flat sprocket), which requires extra drilling and fastening operations, and introduces several points of failure? What about on small-diameter sprockets where there's little room to effectively attach bolts?

For many teams, I think that the convenience (no extra time or labour required) of the one-piece design outweighs the moderate material cost savings that could be realized.

[sanddrag]

I could have an interest for ANSI #25 7075 Aluminum sprockets in the range of about 18 or 22 teeth, with hub, and 3/8" round bore (to allow expansion up to several different bores).

[R.C.]

So I take it that there is a need for sprockets. I'll start the list of things asked for. Just add on to it.

1. ANSI #25 7075 Aluminum sprockets in the range of about 18 or 22 teeth, with hub, and 3/8" round bore
2.
3.
4.

[AustinSchuh]

Originally Posted by sanddrag

I could have an interest for ANSI #25 7075 Aluminum sprockets in the range of about 18 or 22 teeth, with hub, and 3/8" round bore (to allow expansion up to several different bores).

How thick should the hub be, or is there some standard hub size that I am not aware of?

[R.C.]

Originally Posted by AustinSchuh

How thick should the hub be, or is there some standard hub size that I am not aware of?

They will probably be made around McMaster Carr specs.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by CraigHickman

Hate to be a bubble burster, but this would put material costs way up. In order to have a hub, you need round (or square) that is greater than the outside diameter of the sprocket. If you have no hub, then it would be simple to machine it out of plate. If a hub is really needed, then why not machine a nice little 6061 spacer and bolt it to the flat sprocket? It'll end up costing you less in materials, and can easily be done on a manual mill...

Craig, I'm not sure what you're referring to. You can make a hubbed sprocket out of the same size barstock as a non-hubbed sprocket.

As to whether or not I'd be interested-sure, in a year or two.

I mean no offense to whoever would be making these, but it's too much to rely on a party that is a quantity unknown to FIRST. We have no idea if this guy can handle hundreds (or thousands) of parts in a matter of a week or two. We don't know if he can guarantee that every part from every batch will meet a consistent quality level (precision, accuracy, fit and finish, etc). We don't know if the price will be right (and if it's custom, you're almost totally screwed if the budget rules remain the same. It would be prohibitively expensive to have to account for fair market value of the labor involved). There's too many unknowns for me to be willing to plan my drivetrain around the expectation that these components can be purchased COTS.

There's a lot of thought and planning that needs to go into something like this. RC, I would encourage you to talk to Andy or Mark and they could fill you in on how much work it is. I'm just worried that your sponsor may think he's going to be doing a couple parts here and there and not really understand the magnitude of such an undertaking. He may not realize that he could be on the hook for 1,000 parts that teams will be expecting to show up at their door within a week from the time they place the order.

Just with the knowledge of the processes involved, you could tie up a large sized shop for most of the 6 weeks fabricating all the various sizes of gears and sprockets. More, depending on the machines they have.

I'm not saying you shouldn't do it, but I think you should step back and take a look at the big picture, or find someone who can help you do so. It would be a shame for teams to be relying on this venture, and have it fold mid season because it turned out to be way harder than expected.

[R.C.]

Originally Posted by Cory

Craig, I'm not sure what you're referring to. You can make a hubbed sprocket out of the same size barstock as a non-hubbed sprocket.

As to whether or not I'd be interested-sure, in a year or two.

I mean no offense to whoever would be making these, but it's too much to rely on a party that is a quantity unknown to FIRST. We have no idea if this guy can handle hundreds (or thousands) of parts in a matter of a week or two. We don't know if he can guarantee that every part from every batch will meet a consistent quality level (precision, accuracy, fit and finish, etc). We don't know if the price will be right (and if it's custom, you're almost totally screwed if the budget rules remain the same. It would be prohibitively expensive to have to account for fair market value of the labor involved). There's too many unknowns for me to be willing to plan my drivetrain around the expectation that these components can be purchased COTS.

There's a lot of thought and planning that needs to go into something like this. RC, I would encourage you to talk to Andy or Mark and they could fill you in on how much work it is. I'm just worried that your sponsor may think he's going to be doing a couple parts here and there and not really understand the magnitude of such an undertaking. He may not realize that he could be on the hook for 1,000 parts that teams will be expecting to show up at their door within a week from the time they place the order.

Just with the knowledge of the processes involved, you could tie up a large sized shop for most of the 6 weeks fabricating all the various sizes of gears and sprockets. More, depending on the machines they have.

I'm not saying you shouldn't do it, but I think you should step back and take a look at the big picture, or find someone who can help you do so. It would be a shame for teams to be relying on this venture, and have it fold mid season because it turned out to be way harder than expected.

Thanks Cory, I won't be the one doing it. He wanted feedback and this will help him make a decision. I am just relaying the messages from everyone here to him.

Thatz all Cory. I do understand the magnitude of this and it is up to him how he handles it. I will talk to Andy about this. Thanks for the Advice Cory.

[=Martin=Taylor=]

I believe the Poofs and AM (they sell 1 al gear) had their gears anodized and teflon-impregnated. I don't claim to know much about Materials Science, but I'd be wary of using aluminum gears. In my experience, rubbing aluminum on aluminum doesn't work too good.

Would I use al gears in a manipulator? Absolutely.

Wouldn't bother with sprockets. You can just attach an AM sprocket to a hub and make a good al sprocket, which requires no broaching.

[AdamHeard]

I would want 18T #25 sprockets made to the EXACT specs as a standard COTS sprocket (1/2" width, .110 face width, and so on).

I think you're best bet is to not do custom, and make them the same as COTS so teams can use either or.

Larger 7075 sprockets are probably unnecessary.

[sdcantrell56]

I agree with the request for smaller (18-24 tooth) hubbed #25 sprockets. Also if he wants to keep machining costs down he could just do one bore size such as 1/4" so that teams could bore out to fit or broach for a hex, although personally I would love to see them offered in 3/8" and 1/2" hex. Also gears for the andymark shifter and toughbox would be a great product in my mind, especially if he could make up some different gear ratios. If he can do the sprockets for between $10-$15 and the quality is consistent then we would definitely buy them.

Are you guys looking for a few test teams? We would love to help out.