Weight Specs for FIRST competition

[Skipwich]

Our team just received the shipment for the controls for this year's robot competition. We noticed that, after assembling all the sections needed for controlling the robot (not the driver's board) onto a test-board, we noticed that the new controls system is considerably heavier than its predecessor. My question is did FIRST change the weight limit for the robots in this year's competition because of the fact that the new controls system is heavier than the old controls system?

Thanks-
Skip

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Skipwich

Our team just received the shipment for the controls for this year's robot competition. We noticed that, after assembling all the sections needed for controlling the robot (not the driver's board) onto a test-board, we noticed that the new controls system is considerably heavier than its predecessor. My question is did FIRST change the weight limit for the robots in this year's competition because of the fact that the new controls system is heavier than the old controls system?

Thanks-
Skip

We don't know yet. Wait until January.

[ttldomination]

This is an interesting question.

Obviously we don't know yet,

but think about it though. Wouldn't it be like FIRST to keep the weight limit the same or about the same just so that we would face a greater challenge this year?

It'll be interesting.

[samir13k]

At least we dont need spikes for the solenoids anymore!!!

[commodoredl]

AFAIK, OSHA Safety regulations limit the weight to be lifted by two people to 150 lbs, approximately the weight of an FRC robot with bumpers and battery attached.
If FIRST were to raise the weight limit, there would either have to be a lighter solution for either battery or bumpers, or teams would need to start carrying the robots with three members of their drive teams.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by Skipwich

Our team just received the shipment for the controls for this year's robot competition. We noticed that, after assembling all the sections needed for controlling the robot (not the driver's board) onto a test-board, we noticed that the new controls system is considerably heavier than its predecessor. My question is did FIRST change the weight limit for the robots in this year's competition because of the fact that the new controls system is heavier than the old controls system?

Thanks-
Skip

Consider it just another engineering challenge

[cabbagekid2]

Originally Posted by commodoredl

AFAIK, OSHA Safety regulations limit the weight to be lifted by two people to 150 lbs, approximately the weight of an FRC robot with bumpers and battery attached.
If FIRST were to raise the weight limit, there would either have to be a lighter solution for either battery or bumpers, or teams would need to start carrying the robots with three members of their drive teams.

Does anyone have an exact OSHA rule to quote? Upon searching the OSHA website I found the following:

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owad...S&p_id =24876

Question: Is there a policy or guide which states the maximum weight a person may lift?

Reply: OSHA does not have a standard which sets limits on how much a person may lift or carry. However, a sister agency, the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH), has developed a mathematical model which helps predict the risk of injury based on the weight being lifted and accounts for many confounding factors. The model is based on previous medical research into the compressive forces needed to cause damage to bones and ligaments of the back.

Doesn't look like there's strict rules, just recommendations by NIOSH NOT OSHA.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Originally Posted by cabbagekid2

Doesn't look like there's strict rules, just recommendations by NIOSH NOT OSHA.

A little further investigation and you will find that the limit is set by weight, and number of times lifted during a day. The 150 lb limit is stretching it but is within the guidlines as I remember. The MK batteries are a slight bit lighter than the Yuasa from earlier competitions. Still 120 (robot) + 13.82 (battery) + 15 (bumpers)=148.82 lb. I am hoping the GDC will allow lighter alternative interconnect cables for all the hardware of the control system though.

[Sam2197]

maybe they are planning the game around this new found extra weight. could be that it will require everyone to downsize a bit to find ways to be quick and able to fit in small spaces

[Rosiebotboss]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

... I am hoping the GDC will allow lighter alternative interconnect cables for all the hardware of the control system though.

Is there a solution? Are there lighter cables to be had/bought? Would the GDC consider allowing us teams to cut the cable length? (assuming the team has the proper expertise of putting on a new cable end).

Personnally-I doubt there would be allowances made.

[IndySam]

Heck FIRST could even reduce the weight allowed and make a new design challenge for us all.

Just like everything else you never know what they may have up their collective sleeves.

[Taylor]

I thought they were going with LabView because the program is lighter and compensates for the electronics....

[JesseK]

After literally running with a 135lb robot in tow through the Atlanta tunnel to get to our match right after lunch on Friday (and missing lunch too ), I am an advocate for reducing the maximum allowed robot weight. At competitions like Philadelphia '08 where there are only 40 robots and each team has 11 qualifications, there is potential to have to carry the robot on and off the field up to 13 times in a 6 hour period on Saturday.

We could return to something like the tiered weight system again, where 6' tall robots may only be 100lbs, 5' @ 110, and 4' @ 120, or a reduced starting footprint tiered system. This means that bulkier bots have to be lighter so they're easier to handle off the field.

Is there a solution? Are there lighter cables to be had/bought? Would the GDC consider allowing us teams to cut the cable length? (assuming the team has the proper expertise of putting on a new cable end).

Personnally-I doubt there would be allowances made.

There is aluminum wiring available, but specifically banned by the rules for safety reasons. It tends to start fires if too much current is drawn.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by Rosiebotboss

Is there a solution? Are there lighter cables to be had/bought?

It is perfectly fine, electrically, to replace the bulky 37-pin cable to the Digital Sidecar with a lighter and shorter ribbon cable. That's not an insignificant weight savings. However, we won't know until the rules are published whether or not it will be legal to do so.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Dana,
Alan (above) is correct, short, custom, ribbon cables can significantly lighten the load. You may also not need all connections within a 37 pin cable and that would allow a further reduction in the weight. Just by shedding the bulky connector housing and hardware, I would guess you could loose several ounces. Packing all the bulk of the control system (fully decked out) into the robot is going to be a challenge as well. The RF rules for the wireless port will be similar for past radios. Mount the unit so that it is not buried down inside the frame where it's output is shielded by metal components and handle all cabling with care. i.e. no sharp bends, pinch points, etc. and secure the case and all wiring to the robot frame.