Scouter/strategizer for hire

[xitaqua]

Hello All,

I think some folks bring good points from both sides. The way I see it is that there is no regulations on "paid consultants".

Some coaches who are usually school teachers are paid by their school district while others not.....are the teachers getting paid considered paid consultants ?

My concern is that if teams want to "pay" for assistance I am ok with it as long those folks are not called "Mentors".

A mentor by definition is someone that "supports" and provide guidance among other things, but does not have a "stake" on it like "monetary compensation".

Mentors are not consultants. Mentors are not for hired.

Babysitters are get paid to baby-sit, but they are not family per say.

A mentor is like part of the "team", but it is there for many reasons but MONEY.

If teams have that much money to buy "expertise", might as well use that money to help the cause as a whole......maybe use it to train more mentors or fund "celebration event" to thank all the mentors that volunteered their time.

I have mentored a team for a couple years with no expectations with the exception one day, one of those "kids" will be walking in the hallway of the company I work and say....aren't you our mentor back in 2006/2007 ?.

Today I am mentoring a rookie team....and the journey continues.

Cheers,
Marcos.

[BrentJ]

Originally Posted by xitaqua

Hello All,


My concern is that if teams want to "pay" for assistance I am ok with it as long those folks are not called "Mentors".

A mentor by definition is someone that "supports" and provide guidance among other things, but does not have a "stake" on it like "monetary compensation".

Mentors are not consultants. Mentors are not for hired.

Babysitters are get paid to baby-sit, but they are not family per say.

A mentor is like part of the "team", but it is there for many reasons but MONEY.

An interesting definition but don't some teams sponsors let their staff work as "mentors" and they are paid by the their company while they are doing it?
The team itself is not paying for the "mentor".

[Nawaid Ladak]

I personally really LOVE this idea, im not going to have a lot of time to help out any team in my area besides kickoff weekend coming up with a design etc. to really make an impact during build season.

i'll probably go to the Florida Regional and offer my services for no charge to any teams that want it (i doubt it, but w/e)

if the team succeed with my help and the team earns it's way to Atlanta, and they want me to come along. I would come along as long as it wasn't a problem for the team (they have an extra bed at the hotel/they have space in the car etc.) and work even harder so that that team can succeed.

a few teams have asked me to help them out with selection lists before, and i didn't hesitate to help out.

here are a few other ways to think about this:

If FIRST does get the shot in the future to be on TV or something, they will need someone can point out little things to the viewers that strategists can see on the field (Karthik during GTR on Discovery Canada comes to mind)

political parties have their own strategists and some sports teams hire strategists so they can succeed.

In my honest opinion, if teams are that desperate that they are willing to pay someone to come up with strategies and to scout other teams for them so that they can succeed, they don't understand that in FIRST, it's not all about being 1st.

[bduddy]

I'm not trying to put down the topic creators at all, but why should the strategist be an adult anyway? Just because they can, doesn't mean they should be. It's a valuable position for a team member to play, especially if it means they have chemistry with the drivers and an ability to relate to alliance partners. Also, it gives another member the experience of being on the field, which is never a bad thing. 840 has always done it, and it has worked quite well.

[Vikesrock]

Originally Posted by bduddy

I'm not trying to put down the topic creators at all, but why should the strategist be an adult anyway? Just because they can, doesn't mean they should be. It's a valuable position for a team member to play, especially if it means they have chemistry with the drivers and an ability to relate to alliance partners. Also, it gives another member the experience of being on the field, which is never a bad thing. 840 has always done it, and it has worked quite well.

First, Dylan has clarified that they would be off-field strategists. Working with the drive team (including coach) and I would assume alliance partners to develop strategies, and also helping with alliance lists for elims.

Second, please, please, please (please, please, please) keep that debate away from this thread. There are other threads on that topic and it certainly doesn't need to be dredged up here.

To address the original question, I would be all for teams treating you guys like their mentors if they so choose. Depending on the team this may cover gas and a roof over your head for the weekend. Even this is pushing it as mentors are there the whole season and you guys are just hopping in for the weekend. I would definitely wonder about any team that would reward a weekend strategy team with anything above and beyond what they do for their mentors.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Vikesrock

To address the original question, I would be all for teams treating you guys like their mentors if they so choose. Depending on the team this may cover gas and a roof over your head for the weekend. Even this is pushing it as mentors are there the whole season and you guys are just hopping in for the weekend. I would definitely wonder about any team that would reward a weekend strategy team with anything above and beyond what they do for their mentors.

Would someone in this situation really want to be a mentor?

If you are considered a mentor of the team, you're in a position where you can pretty much be held responsible for anything that happens to the kids while they are under team supervision.

I know this isn't really under the domain of the original topic of this thread, but it's something to think about.

[Vikesrock]

Originally Posted by Cory

Would someone in this situation really want to be a mentor?

If you are considered a mentor of the team, you're in a position where you can pretty much be held responsible for anything that happens to the kids while they are under team supervision.

I know this isn't really under the domain of the original topic of this thread, but it's something to think about.

This is a very good point Cory and I think it is important, even if it doesn't directly address the initial question.

To be honest, it didn't even cross my mind.

[JaneYoung]

There are likely cause and effect possibilities that stem from ideas like this. It is good to step back and look at/think of all the ones that you can.

I thought about the awards. As it stands now, how are judges going to understand that a team hired a strategist at the competition? Many judges (as well as others) understand the concept of helping to change the culture. By hiring strategists, is that helping to change the culture? If it is, how is it doing so and to what end? There's a lot to think about in a proposal such a this one, I think. If you are hired and you don't come through with the success you are offering the team, can they sue you? It becomes a business. Let's say teams at regionals make it a common practice to hire strategists - then what comes next - working within the culture in society that exists now? Where can it lead?

Also, part of being an FRC team is developing and growing. If the team invites strategists to come to some team meetings and share experience/knowledge, that is a way to help the team develop and grow. If the team hires strategists to come to the regional and work for the team in achieving success on the field, it can still help the team develop and grow but it can also invite problems that the team and the strategists need to be prepared for.

This is an .02, nothing more.
Jane

[Karthik]

Dylan,

Kudos to you for wanting to spread your knowledge and expertise to other teams. Many FIRST teams seem to lack sound strategic planning at competitions. Hopefully by helping a single team out at a regional, you can inspire them to focus more on strategic planning in the future. This in my mind is a very good thing.

As for the issue of payment by donation, I see no issue with it. One of the most important part of the FIRST program is developing partnerships. What makes FIRST a unique program is that teams are encouraged to develop partnerships with engineers and mentors to increase the learning and inspiration of the student participants. This is exactly what any team who uses Dylan's services would be doing. Many teams give their mentors gifts at the end of the year, or even cover their travel costs during the season as recognition for their dedication and sacrifices. Chipping in to cover Dylan's travel costs, or buying him dinner seem like a more than fair way to recognize and reward the service he would be providing for the team.

[Starke]

Originally Posted by Karthik

As for the issue of payment by donation, I see no issue with it. One of the most important part of the FIRST program is developing partnerships. What makes FIRST a unique program is that teams are encouraged to develop partnerships with engineers and mentors to increase the learning and inspiration of the student participants. This is exactly what any team who uses Dylan's services would be doing. Many teams give their mentors gifts at the end of the year, or even cover their travel costs during the season as recognition for their dedication and sacrifices. Chipping in to cover Dylan's travel costs, or buying him dinner seem like a more than fair way to recognize and reward the service he would be providing for the team.

As Dylan mentioned when starting this thread, I am the second part to the equation of this idea. What Karthik said is exactly what we are aiming for. Dylan and I are not looking to charge teams for our services, simply covering the costs to be there to help. Both of us love scouting and strategizing, and desire to share our knowledge with other teams! This thread is meant to share our idea with the CD community and see what other teams think.

- Matt

[Madison]

Also, for the record, this notion is certainly not unprecedented. A team's engineering mentor was unable to attend the 2003 Championship in Houston due to illness, and consequently, I was asked to substitute. The team's sponsor covered all of my travel costs.

[colin340]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

There are likely cause and effect possibilities that stem from ideas like this. It is good to step back and look at/think of all the ones that you can.

I thought about the awards. As it stands now, how are judges going to understand that a team hired a strategist at the competition? Many judges (as well as others) understand the concept of helping to change the culture. By hiring strategists, is that helping to change the culture? If it is, how is it doing so and to what end? There's a lot to think about in a proposal such a this one, I think. If you are hired and you don't come through with the success you are offering the team, can they sue you? It becomes a business. Let's say teams at regionals make it a common practice to hire strategists - then what comes next - working within the culture in society that exists now? Where can it lead?

Also, part of being an FRC team is developing and growing. If the team invites strategists to come to some team meetings and share experience/knowledge, that is a way to help the team develop and grow. If the team hires strategists to come to the regional and work for the team in achieving success on the field, it can still help the team develop and grow but it can also invite problems that the team and the strategists need to be prepared for.

This is an .02, nothing more.
Jane

you bring up some good points Jane but form talking to dill-un (Dylan) i would not call it hiring i don't think would make money he would just break even as he said ( NOT MONETARY PAYMENTS!) food, gas and leting him sleep in your cold garage during the comp is not really hireing him

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by colin340

you bring up some good points Jane but form talking to dill-un (Dylan) i would not call it hiring i don't think would make money he would just break even as he said ( NOT MONETARY PAYMENTS!) food, gas and leting him sleep in your cold garage during the comp is not really hireing him

Right,
so in the proposals, it should be stated as such with the purpose being made crystal clear. In working through this, every aspect should be carefully thought of from every angle. One is still offering their services and there will be expectations attached to the services on both sides. Those expectations should be looked at and addressed whether it is a service exchange that helps with travel costs or it is a monetary payment. In other words, this is a golden opportunity for a couple of entrepreneurs to develop a business plan.

[Steve Ketron]

I personally have enjoyed the chance to work with Dylan in the past and would like to officially invite him to come to Michigan and help my team. Considering that scouting/strategizing is one of the major areas of concern with the iPirates and my new team Ketronix, I believe it would be worth everything to have such valuable experience come in and show my students what and how scouting/strategizing is done correctly. Dylan drop me an e-mail and I will hook you up in Michigan.

[Wetzel]

The team I am with now, 1884, has in the past not had enough technical mentors. This year, they got extra funds to offer potential mentors a fellowship. It's a decent about of money, £250 for undergraduates and £500 for professional mentors. It's enough to cover my costs to take the bus to and from the meetings for the season. They are expecting a minimum of 40 hours during build season(lol), and there is an application process. I would be working with them anyways, but the fellowship attracted a PhD mechatronics student from Imperial College. Now that he has been around a few weeks, he has actually committed to more time and seems to be enjoying himself, in addition to being really helpful!

It is basically a stipend in an attempt to lure mentors, rather than people that want to goto more regionals trying to cover their expenses. I might be slightly biased about it, but I don't see a fellowship as a bad thing to offer. VCU offers a 3 course 400 level engineering elective course where you work with a FRC team for the build season. Not so different an incentive.

Wetzel