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Unread 06-12-2008, 22:18
alectronic alectronic is offline
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Re: Game Hint #1

Quote:
Originally Posted by pschre View Post
Out of all the ideas posted on this thread, the two that I'm throwing my support behind are:

1) Moon, Fish, Ocean being a so-called Zen variation of Rock Paper Scissors, where the disciple must have a certain non-attachment to the outcomes of each play in order to be mindful to grab the pebble and ultimately win whenever the master plays Ocean.

2) With the backwards text and all, realizing that fish backwards is HSIF (Hybrid Systems Interchange Format), defined on http://repo.isis.vanderbilt.edu/definitions/ as "an interchange format for hybrid system models that can be shared between modeling and analysis tools. HSIF models represent dynamic systems, whose dynamics includes both continuous and discrete behaviors."

"Both continuous and discrete behaviors" sounds to me like dynamics that a robot would need to be mindful of, so to speak, if it were to play Moon, Fish, Ocean. A more specific prediction of game rules, I won't suggest, but I've heard that with the new control systems robots can communicate with each other, so maybe that will be a factor as well.
I think that pschre is more on track. rather then trying to decipher random text imbedded in an image or something, maybe put some time into researching HSIF or whatever. As far as I can tell, there is no clear meaning to the fish in particular except that it is rare. HSIF is the best bet, but everyones ideas are still entertaining.! keep it up!
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Unread 06-12-2008, 22:22
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Re: Game Hint #1

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobwrit View Post
Could the game peices be pucks?
The FTC game pieces are pucks, I'm guessing that's what the reference is for...especially since the page you linked to also as the "FTC field kit" and the "sun tops" rough terrain squares...
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Unread 06-12-2008, 23:04
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Re: Game Hint #1

Quote:
Originally Posted by pschre View Post
Out of all the ideas posted on this thread, the two that I'm throwing my support behind are:

1) Moon, Fish, Ocean being a so-called Zen variation of Rock Paper Scissors, where the disciple must have a certain non-attachment to the outcomes of each play in order to be mindful to grab the pebble and ultimately win whenever the master plays Ocean.

2) With the backwards text and all, realizing that fish backwards is HSIF (Hybrid Systems Interchange Format), defined on http://repo.isis.vanderbilt.edu/definitions/ as "an interchange format for hybrid system models that can be shared between modeling and analysis tools. HSIF models represent dynamic systems, whose dynamics includes both continuous and discrete behaviors."

"Both continuous and discrete behaviors" sounds to me like dynamics that a robot would need to be mindful of, so to speak, if it were to play Moon, Fish, Ocean. A more specific prediction of game rules, I won't suggest, but I've heard that with the new control systems robots can communicate with each other, so maybe that will be a factor as well.
hmmm...this might be the only plausible reason for the bleed text in the pic--to draw attention to fish backwards is HSIF. I still believe that the bleed text is not important. I do like the idea of Moon, Fish, Ocean as the game [or at least the game architecture]
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Unread 06-12-2008, 23:40
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Re: Game Hint #1

Quote:
Originally Posted by pschre View Post
2) With the backwards text and all, realizing that fish backwards is HSIF (Hybrid Systems Interchange Format), defined on http://repo.isis.vanderbilt.edu/definitions/ as "an interchange format for hybrid system models that can be shared between modeling and analysis tools. HSIF models represent dynamic systems, whose dynamics includes both continuous and discrete behaviors."
Thanks you for the definition.

As I was reading through the forum to catch up with what was being thought of, there were many people bringing up the possibility on encrypted text in the shading values of the pixel, and what the password that corresponded with the extraction of that data maybe. A few people asked to try numbers from posts, random numbers, and words that related to the fish. Then a few people said to try the passwords from past years, and this reminded me of last year.

One person went to the spot were the GPS coordinates were, said there was a statue of a heir and a tortoise, than went on to say that it was facing a building and blah, blah, blah. That person didn't even notice that they skipped the answer to the clue. Last year we over thought the clues, and we are doing the same again.

Look at what I quoted in the beginning of this post, sound familiar? To me thats the new control system exactly. Now what about the image of the fish? what does it mean? Could it be another saying/ moral/ folklore?

Fish out of water

We are all Fish out of water.

Programmers = LabVeiw

Electrical = Module system

Mechanical = They always have something new ;D

As for the image size, and oddities with the difference of the images having blue, and orange circles popping up, well I don't really know what's going on with that but, I do know we are all over thinking this problem.
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Unread 06-12-2008, 23:49
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Re: Game Hint #1

Okay, definitely not an encrypted message inside the image file. Reason? As I and a couple of others here have found, this file was edited by Adobe photoshop on an Apple computer. The original file, which is about half the size, was not. Not stereotyping, but the people who use Apples aren't generally the kind of people to be encrypting things with steganography. Oh, well, speculation is fun.

Personally, I still think its about our impact on the marine environment, and it'll be some sort of representative game with pieces that are symbolic of our actions (somewhat like FLL this year).
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Unread 07-12-2008, 00:26
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Re: Game Hint #1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Needel View Post
There are many methods of hiding information in photographs. I was able to scan the image at the highest sensitivity for all the major types of encryption (jsteg, jphide, outguess, and invisible) The system of hiding information within photos was able to detect a hidden message. Now the methodology I used just exposes the type of hidden message and not the message itself. The message unfortunatly for us appears to be hidden in the JPHIDE which utilizes a password based encryption so without the password it will be impossible to figure out the message. Although we do know that there is something there.


****disclaimer: the way the analysis tools that I have scan the data it looks for missing voids in repeating color sections of the photo (complex photos with lots of colors are best for hiding). When I tested with normal sensitivity I didn't see any result, but on cranking up the sensitivity I found proof of an encryption. With all things like this it is possible to get a false positive, but since this is all for fun anyway we can just assume it is there.



so what do we think the password is? I might try to make a dictionary and brute force it later after I am done with the bench top test of the new control system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oris View Post
I doubt they scanned it... found this image here:

http://www.australianseafoodexports..../moonfish1.jpg

http://www.australianseafoodexports....rderonline.htm

Google Images: "Moon Fish"

Enjoy!

-Oris-
Hey, I'm new here but me and a couple of friends were just trying to crack the password on the encryption even though we knew we wouldn't get anywhere. But we had an idea and tested one the originals that FRC copied the picture from and it had an encryption as well. (We ran stegdetect with a sensitivity of 10 to see if there was an encryption on the FIRST copy as well as the original.) Maybe this encryption is a dead end.
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Unread 07-12-2008, 00:45
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Re: Game Hint #1

I think that maybe everybody is a little bit right. The terrain will be rough/bumpy but will also have a water aspect. This might be that the carpet is wet....you never know...
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Unread 07-12-2008, 00:54
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Re: Game Hint #1

Quote:
Originally Posted by robonerd13 View Post
I think that maybe everybody is a little bit right. The terrain will be rough/bumpy but will also have a water aspect. This might be that the carpet is wet....you never know...
OOHH! I like the idea of the carpet being wet. It would go with the water game, and it would go with rough/bumpy terrain. It would challenge the world of traction... I like it, alot.
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Unread 07-12-2008, 01:07
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Re: Game Hint #1

Quote:
Originally Posted by tehpenguin View Post
Maybe this encryption is a dead end.
I think that is quite clear. Although the idea of wet carpet is fun, it brings up the issue of arena restrictions again. A) How would you control the water on the carpet? AKA, puddles and stuff. B) That would require some sort of protection for the floor like a tarp or something. That would likely be just as impossible as the pool idea. Keep up the brainstorming! it is fun to read! leds hope the 2nd clue is not far away!
On another note, does anyone know how long to expect it to take to receive a control system, if we requested on early shipment around 11/18ish? Thanks.
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Unread 07-12-2008, 01:17
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Re: Game Hint #1

Quote:
Originally Posted by hihihiflcl81pig View Post
Thanks you for the definition.

As I was reading through the forum to catch up with what was being thought of, there were many people bringing up the possibility on encrypted text in the shading values of the pixel, and what the password that corresponded with the extraction of that data maybe. A few people asked to try numbers from posts, random numbers, and words that related to the fish. Then a few people said to try the passwords from past years, and this reminded me of last year.

One person went to the spot were the GPS coordinates were, said there was a statue of a heir and a tortoise, than went on to say that it was facing a building and blah, blah, blah. That person didn't even notice that they skipped the answer to the clue. Last year we over thought the clues, and we are doing the same again.

Look at what I quoted in the beginning of this post, sound familiar? To me thats the new control system exactly. Now what about the image of the fish? what does it mean? Could it be another saying/ moral/ folklore?

Fish out of water

We are all Fish out of water.

Programmers = LabVeiw

Electrical = Module system

Mechanical = They always have something new ;D

As for the image size, and oddities with the difference of the images having blue, and orange circles popping up, well I don't really know what's going on with that but, I do know we are all over thinking this problem.
I totally agree that everyone is over analysing this thing.

What about:

1 Fish 2 Fish Red Fish Blue Fish

Red Alliance has 1 of something while Blue Alliance has 2 of something?
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Unread 07-12-2008, 01:21
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Re: Game Hint #1

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyB View Post
I totally agree that everyone is over analysing this thing.

What about:

1 Fish 2 Fish Red Fish Blue Fish

Red Alliance has 1 of something while Blue Alliance has 2 of something?
I am going to stop analyzing, or I will go insane. But maybe it has something to do with rhymes about fish? Exactly what andyb is saying, but is there any others that are maybe well known? Could there be a pop-culture reference? Also, does anyone know if there was / where to find the 2006 game hints? (I am sure they are on CD somewhere, but buried very deep. )
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Unread 07-12-2008, 01:26
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Re: Game Hint #1

Quote:
Originally Posted by techalex View Post
Also, does anyone know if there was / where to find the 2006 game hints? (I am sure they are on CD somewhere, but buried very deep. )
A quick CD search for "2006 game hint" turned up the following: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=41013.

The hint that year was a riddle which, for the sake of sanity, I choose not to repost here. dlavery was also very active dropping red herrings, which I seem to remember there being another thread about. (That thread is probably referenced at least once in the 2006 game hint thread. If not, search is in the orange bar.)
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Unread 07-12-2008, 03:19
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Re: Game Hint #1

I agree, the only thing that FIRST does encrypt is the manual, and that is so there is more time for people to leech from the download server, instead of crashing it, trying to hand it out once the game is released. In past years we have gotten riddles, sayings, folklore, or something of that sort. These clues are meant to be solved by reasonable means, not rainbow tables. Think of the clues as language arts =D.
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Unread 07-12-2008, 10:14
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My thoughts...

So were definitely building sushi making robots...
not really
In all seriousness here's the conclusion ive reached (after reading the entire thread)
ive kinda combined ideas from many different people...
1)i highly doubt that there is an encription on the image but if im wrong and you need a password like most have been asking for try obvious things...dean kamen, woodie flowers, etc.
2)As for the game, im shooting for alliances of four with black plexi dividing them longwise and to the robots have to cross the division through ramps (34 degrees) so go into camera mode
3) each division will have different terrain (so two types one for each side)
the alliances will have to pass the gamepieces(various shapes) to each other and their will be 1 super opah thing for major points
...im in a hurry...ill check back later to clarify any of what i said...wish i had more time

a repeat of of one the most overused expression in the thread
thats my 2 cents
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Unread 07-12-2008, 10:18
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Re: Game Hint #1

Gah! Dave changed his signature again.

Quote:
For the five: with your decorum, we shall thrive.
Edit: Ok, now that he has posted a series of 5 numbers, I'm thinking zip code. 56345 happens to be the zip for Little Falls, MN. Then again, it could have nothing to do with places.

Edit #2: Does anyone know if his signature contained anything else unusual before the "To the five, you keep me alive"? That was when I started tracking it, but the sequence could have started before then.

Last edited by DMetalKong : 07-12-2008 at 10:26.
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