Team 869 In Need of Some Advice

[waitwhat?]

Hey guys, so here's the story. Our machine shop from prior years is not going to be able to help us this year with our robot. Although our team is hard at work trying to find a replacement shop, the possibility of not having a shop this year is growing bigger and bigger. I am just wondering if any of you guys would have any good bits of advice as to certain design tips. Basically any advice that would help out a team whom does not have a metal shop at their highschool, and only has access to hand tools, some power tools, as well as a bandsaw and drill press, both capable pf cutting wood and aluminum. Also, any materials that are easy to modify with such tools, but do not require cnc milling to become usful. Sorry about the poor grammer but everyone is starting to panic a bit. Hopefully someone out there can point us in the right direction. Any input would be greatly appreciated!

[Cow Bell Solo]

Is there a reason on why you can't use the machine shop from prior years?

I guess ask around at small or big local busnesses that manufacture stuff, that could be a possibility, but it sounds like you have already tried that.

[MikeMascaro]

We've built a robot without a real machine shop for all eight years so far. We just use drill press, etc. It's not too bad, you just make sure you have enough time allotted to actually build your robot, because I imaging having a machine shop is faster then not having one. We normally build ours in around two weeks, with the other four weeks for prototypes.

[alex1699]

umm well find a two car grudge and use what you got its what team 1699 did for the last few year!

and it gets the job done!
but for materials rivits nuts and bolts the basics...
for welding try some of your naboring schools that might be willing to lend a hand. you just might get them in to first!

umm... what else i think we got a lot out of working in the gruage. learning more respect using are tools and such. you might not have all the mills and such but i found it good cuase you got to look out side the box in making make shift ways in doing things.

good luck on find a place to work!

[joshy1323]

i am very sorry to hear that. unfortunately you are located very far away from my team so it would be difficult for us to give you any physical help. and i do not know what my team would do if our tools were taken from us. but keep hope because plenty of teams build good robots with very limited resousces. my team started without a machine shop of any kind and we still built competitave robots in the beginning. one thing that helped us was generous buisnesses with machine shops in our town. people are usually happy to help once they have heard about the things FIRST does. i wish i could help more and if there is anything my team can do to help you out from this distance do not be afraid to ask because we will do all we can. good luck


and to any teams that may have a problem similar to this in the central california area please dont be afraid to ask for help. we have plenty of machining capability and we would hate to see a team fall from the competition if there was something we could have done to help.

[Billfred]

You've more or less described 1618's shop. Of note:

-There is no shame in using the kitbot. Get it together, make whatever cheap improvements you can (for us, that was going 6WD, riveting the frame, and adding AM Super Shifters), and focus on your manipulator.

-Think simple materials. We built the main arm for our 2007 robot, Uppercut, with a few pieces of angle aluminum and one length of PVC pipe from the local hardware store. Bolt it all together, put a window motor (or its equivalent for 2009) and you've got a single-stage arm. Now focus on a manipulator.

-Focus what machining resources you might be able to scrounge on the things you just can't do off-the shelf...but if you can, alter your design with these things in mind.

-Stephen Kowski pointed this one out to me: don't ask "What Would Beatty Do?", ask "What Would BeachBots Do?". Look at 330 the past four seasons. Together, those robots have won one four regionals (and finalist at two more), Curie in 2007, IRI in 2008, and the whole enchilada in 2005. They're all dead simple; single joints for everything but 2006 (when an arm wasn't really an option). Build it as simple as possible, then refine that design as best you can. More time, shorter letter.

[Lancer Robotics]

Machine shop? Whats that? We are very fortunate in having a mentor who is very good at making flat material work like machined parts. With the extruced aluminum from Rexroth we made our own gussets from 1/8" alu,. Drill press for screws and lightening, 1/4 x20 t nuts and you can overcome a lot. We have to buy things like gears and sprockets and wheels, but that is the price to pay for not having access to a machne shop. A sander to round over edges and the famous buffing wheel.

not really hard and it gives a new challenge to the team.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Billfred

-Stephen Kowski pointed this one out to me: don't ask "What Would Beatty Do?", ask "What Would BeachBots Do?". Look at 330 the past four seasons. Together, those robots have won one four regionals (and finalist at two more), Curie in 2007, IRI in 2008, and the whole enchilada in 2005. They're all dead simple; single joints for everything but 2006 (when an arm wasn't really an option). Build it as simple as possible, then refine that design as best you can. More time, shorter letter.

And guess who has just about the resources you do? Yep, Team 330. Except it's a borrowed chopsaw instead of a bandsaw. The main thing you might want would be a welder, but that's negotiable. (It makes the robot look cooler, but you don't need it.) A machinist mainly does the absolute, 100% "it must be there and nowhere else" holes.

As to materials, 330's arm material of choice tends to be PVC or aluminum, depending on the year. (Fiberglass also works--2007.) Everything else is aluminum, but trannies are purchased or KOP. Steel only shows up in sprockets or in trannies.

Oh, and Billfred--you forgot a finalist at IRI 2005.

[Akash Rastogi]

Honestly best thing I can suggest is go on google maps. Search "Machine shops in ' '"

We did it this year and learned that there are a bunch of machine shops that we never even knew about within 5 minutes of our school basically.

Google maps and Yellowpages, trust them.

Btw if you guys need further assistance feel free to PM or IM me and I'll see what contacts I can dig through for that area. I know of some....

Middlesex County College

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...w=text&attrid=

Hope that this helps out. Btw 2554 is also in Middlesex County, see what they can help out with. Again, please IM or PM me if you need more help.

[neoshaakti]

Hey bro, have I'm from team 2554 in Edison, NJ. We're pretty close to you guys. Anyways, have you guys pursued any on campus facilities? Does MCC have some kinda industrial arts department? You guys are literally part of the campus if I'm not mistaken?
I'll do some brainstorming for ya, so let me get back to you in a little bit.
Don't panic, we'll figure something out.
How far are you willing to travel btw?

[Dragonos]

Team 95 is going through the same possibility of not having a machine shop this year. It is really good that your team still has a bandsaw as this, the press and the gracious professionalism when handling an unfortunate situation like this. (We have worked out of a mentor's garage one year.)
Also don't let this happen to you use a wood block with the bandsaw.
http://wc.pima.edu/~cdiscenza/constr...saw_injury.jpg

-Dragonos-

[Dick Linn]

There must be three dozen machine shops in Middlesex/Piscataway/Plainfield. If you need the odd part turned or a slot milled, you can probably walk in and talk someone into doing it for free. On the rare occasions that Team 975 needed something machined, we've been able to find someone to do it.

[Justin Montois]

Originally Posted by Billfred

-There is no shame in using the kitbot. Get it together, make whatever cheap improvements you can (for us, that was going 6WD, riveting the frame, and adding AM Super Shifters), and focus on your manipulator.

I'm going to echo this. If you don't have access to a machine shop kitbot is the way to go.

[waitwhat?]

mcc is something like 30 minutes away, maybe 25. Also, I am open to suggestions as far as facilities. We dont really have a designated maximum that we are wiloling to travel, as long as its within reason.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by 340x4xLife

I'm going to echo this. If you don't have access to a machine shop kitbot is the way to go.

Thirded!

397's robot was built using mostly 1 inch aluminum that we bent by hand. The only complex parts were the winch for raising our ball knocking device and the mounts for our cylinders. (We did them on a mill but I am pretty sure you could do them using a hand drill and a band saw if need be)

My suggestion would be to make sure your students can use the equipment safely and design knowing what you have to work with.