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Unread 23-06-2002, 23:58
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Honesty & GP are the foundation of FIRST

Posted by Raul at 2/1/2001 1:18 PM EST


Engineer on team #111, Wildstang, from Rolling Meadows & Wheeling HS and Motorola.



I will graciously ask that those who post their opinions about rules be careful in instructing rookies about what the judges may or may not do during inspections.

Honesty and Gracious Professionalism dictate that we do not ever say: "the judges will not notice if you used the wrong material so use your judgement".

What we should be saying is: "even though the judges may not catch your violations, whether inadvertant or intentional, we each have the responsibility to keep this competition and program on the high road by carefully monitoring our use of materials and interpretation of the rules!"

Raul


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Unread 23-06-2002, 23:59
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I am sorry.

Posted by Ken Leung at 2/1/2001 7:41 PM EST


Student on team #192, Gunn Robotics Team, from Henry M. Gunn Senior High School.


In Reply to: Honesty & GP are the foundation of FIRST
Posted by Raul on 2/1/2001 1:18 PM EST:



You are totally right in this. Just because other people aren’t looking doesn’t mean we can do something against rules. Not only is that unfair to other teams who follow the rules, but it make us less of ourselves. I admit I had such an attitude before; fortunately my teammates corrected me from the mistake (and Raul’s strong message). But now it seems the same attitude shows up in my post again, and that is inexcusable. No matter what my intension was, I shouldn’t have mention about how judges inspect, because that, in some way, is already hinting about going around the inspection. I promise to rid the attitude from now on, and focus on Honesty and Gracious Professionalism. I apologize for any mis-leading from my responds, and I will follow the rules all the way (that is if I can memorize all of them).

It’s funny how I want to apologize for my action these days… maybe I ought to think twice before I do anything. (Measure twice, cut once? I wish I learned to do that…)

-Ken Leung



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Unread 23-06-2002, 23:59
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Don't beat yourself up too badly...

Posted by Joe Johnson at 2/1/2001 8:18 PM EST


Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.


In Reply to: I am sorry.
Posted by Ken Leung on 2/1/2001 7:41 PM EST:



Ken,

Based on what I know of you and what I can guess, your heart is closer to the Spirit of FIRST than most.

You have no need to publicly denounce yourself real or imagined thought crimes ;-)

Keep up the good work.

You are a very positive force for FIRST, generally, and on these Forums, in particular.

I, for one, salute you.

Joe J.





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Gracious Professionalism at its worse <----

Posted by Anton Abaya at 2/2/2001 12:09 AM EST


Coach on team #419, Rambots, from UMass Boston / BC High and NONE AT THE MOMENT! .


In Reply to: Don't beat yourself up too badly...
Posted by Joe Johnson on 2/1/2001 8:18 PM EST:



: Ken,

: Based on what I know of you and what I can guess, your heart is closer to the Spirit of FIRST than most.

: You have no need to publicly denounce yourself real or imagined thought crimes ;-)

: Keep up the good work.

: You are a very positive force for FIRST, generally, and on these Forums, in particular.

: I, for one, salute you.

: Joe J.



last year, i recall in our regional that one of the veteran teams gave us some advice....

they said that after inspection, we should soup up our robot to get it to work cuz they dont check it anymore.

actually their words were: &quot;You know, after inspection they dont check your robot anymore.... but we're not telling you what you should do.. ::wink::. A $5000 robot is too expensive to worry about rules.

We laughed and felt sorry for them considering we were all into gracious professionalism. Eh, honesty works, but it's unfortunate that some teams choose to cheat....and to know that they may have won because of an unfair advantage.

i think that robots that win should be REINSPECTED onsite after they compete and make sure teams did not soup up their robots....my two cents.

-anton
&quot;Cheating is giving up.&quot;


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Cheating while nobody is looking...

Posted by Joe Johnson at 2/2/2001 5:03 AM EST


Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.


In Reply to: Gracious Professionalism at its worse
Posted by Anton Abaya on 2/2/2001 12:09 AM EST:



Anton,

Sad story.

FIRST only works because people who could easily cheat
and get away with it, choose to play by the rules.

For me, this is a very grave thing.

The whole idea of
FIRST is that adults should be modeling behaviours we
wish for our high school students to aspire to (e.g.
going to college and getting a degree in engineering).

Do we really want to send the message to our
mentorees that it is okay to cheat as long as they are
sure nobody is looking?

I think not.

Joe J.



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Unread 23-06-2002, 23:59
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Re: Gracious Professionalism at its worse <----

Posted by Raul at 2/2/2001 10:50 PM EST


Engineer on team #111, Wildstang, from Rolling Meadows &amp; Wheeling HS and Motorola.


In Reply to: Gracious Professionalism at its worse
Posted by Anton Abaya on 2/2/2001 12:09 AM EST:



Ouch. I hate to think that a veteran team would do that.

I certainly believe in continuing to fix or even &quot;souping&quot; up your robot during the competition. You just have to be honorable and make a judgement on if you need to be re-inspected.

If you paid attention, you would notice that we often wait as long as they will allow for us to get inspected during the practice day. This is especially true when we have a lot of modifications in mind and our using the practice day to test some functions that may require design adjustments, whether mechanical or electrical. Then we have to consider any modifications done during the seeding or elimination matches very carefully.

I have what may be considered an unpopular idea:
I fully agree with reinpection, but not for just the winners, for all in the elimination rounds immediately following the team selections. In that case, a 6th team should be selected in case one of your partners has a violation that cannot be fixed before the rounds begin.

Raul

: last year, i recall in our regional that one of the veteran teams gave us some advice....

: they said that after inspection, we should soup up our robot to get it to work cuz they dont check it anymore.

: actually their words were: &quot;You know, after inspection they dont check your robot anymore.... but we're not telling you what you should do.. ::wink::. A $5000 robot is too expensive to worry about rules.

: We laughed and felt sorry for them considering we were all into gracious professionalism. Eh, honesty works, but it's unfortunate that some teams choose to cheat....and to know that they may have won because of an unfair advantage.

: i think that robots that win should be REINSPECTED onsite after they compete and make sure teams did not soup up their robots....my two cents.

: -anton
: &quot;Cheating is giving up.&quot;


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Re: I am sorry.

Posted by Raul at 2/2/2001 10:34 PM EST


Engineer on team #111, Wildstang, from Rolling Meadows &amp; Wheeling HS and Motorola.


In Reply to: I am sorry.
Posted by Ken Leung on 2/1/2001 7:41 PM EST:



Ken,

You are a classy guy. Joe is right - you represent the FIRST attitudes well.

I did not mean to direct my comments at you or anyone in particular. I just wanted to remind folks that sometimes expressions are taken the wrong way.

Good luck to your team and keep spreading your good attitudes.

Raul



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