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  #16   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 24-06-2002, 00:00
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Before a fight breaks out...please read

Posted by Lora Knepper at 2/3/2001 9:04 AM EST


Other on team FIRST-a-holics Anonymous from . sponsored by ..


In Reply to: Organization is lovely, but how about reality?
Posted by Jessica Boucher on 2/1/2001 9:34 PM EST:



Before people start taking each other's heads off, lets put this all into perspective, shall we?

I have to agree with Jess on her point that at least right now, the FIRST community has been literally flooded with new scouting databases. Now, no matter why a particular team or individual decides to make one is beside the point really. There are just numerically too many for us to use - in their current form.

Now as for the GMCIA question, I was talking to Nate way back when he was first coding it last year - and I think it's a great system and the one I know most about, but lets face it, GMCIA, SOAP, or the group of others I've seen posted on here won't work unless you have people using them, right?

What we are doing in this issue, and in this thread, are letting emotions get in the way. This is becoming a game of hurt feelings, where someone says "there are too many!" and 5 others feel the need to justify why they or their team has created one. I'm not advocating for just one system necessarily, but more of a way to get them to all talk to each other. I know there have been posts before talking about a "Uniform Standard" and I for one, think that's an excellent idea.

For example, if we had a standard, the regional scouting systems could join up at Nationals, because lets face it, SOAP or GMCIA is not going to be at the NE Regional, or the Lone Star, or the NASA Ames. If the systems can share their knowledge based upon a standard, then when everyone meets up in Florida, imagine the massive amount of data that can be shared? No more having to re-scout teams hundreds of times!

Computer companies do it all the time. There are industry standards for hardware and software - why don't we make a FIRST scouting standard and stop hurting each other over such a trivial issue? We are all in this game for the same reason, it's not right to rip each other apart...

~ Lora Knepper



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Unread 24-06-2002, 00:00
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Point...

Posted by Jessica Boucher at 2/3/2001 10:29 AM EST


Student on team #237, Sie-H2O-Bots, from Watertown High School and Eastern Awning Systems & The Siemon Company.


In Reply to: Before a fight breaks out...please read
Posted by Lora Knepper on 2/3/2001 9:04 AM EST:



: What we are doing in this issue, and in this thread, are letting emotions get in the way. This is becoming a game of hurt feelings, where someone says "there are too many!" and 5 others feel the need to justify why they or their team has created one. I'm not advocating for just one system necessarily, but more of a way to get them to all talk to each other. I know there have been posts before talking about a "Uniform Standard" and I for one, think that's an excellent idea.

I think Lora found the point I've been trying to get at. I'm not out to bash any specific program, nor do I need your reasons to justify your teams validity in making it because you're allowed to make one and you wanted to, thats validity enough for me.

But, I still think theres too many for all of them to be independent, and maybe total integration is too late now (with Nationals so close), but centralization could work.

With all the scouting programs in one place, there would be no doubt in anyone's mind where to go for the info. And, if one system was busy or down, then other programs could get the exposure/use that they wouldn't have gotten elsewhere.

I don't know, I apologize to everyone I offended with my views. I hope something works out, but maybe I should just stop giving my opinion on this because maybe I dont know what I'm saying.

-Jessica B, #237


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Unread 24-06-2002, 00:00
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Re: Point...

Posted by Mike Soukup at 2/3/2001 12:12 PM EST


Engineer on team #111, Wildstang, from Rolling Meadows & Wheeling and Motorola.


In Reply to: Point...
Posted by Jessica Boucher on 2/3/2001 10:29 AM EST:



Lora, I fully agree with you that there should be a set standard that everyone building a scouting system should follow. But I agree more with Jessica's statement that there isn't enough time. Since everyone is probably well on their way to developing their own excellent system, it's not realistic to have them start over and follow a standard. Plus if you just look around any industry, it takes months, even years for a bunch of companies to agree to a standard (unless you're microsoft and you just tell people what the standard is, and say "follow it or die," but that's a discussion for another time

If the FIRST community truly wants to set a standard for scouting systems to follow, it should be discussed in the fall, not the winter/spring. From working with the SOAP team and through development here at Motorola, I know how hard collaboration can be between people who aren't at the same location. It takes a lot of time and a lot of extra effort.

For this year, I think teams should go ahead and share data between themselves if they can work it out. Heck, it doesn't have to be on the computer, do it the old fashioned way by trading sheets of paper. We'll all benefit from that. But as for a computer standard, I fear it's too late in the game to try to hammer one out. As for next year, I'll talk to anyone who wants to set a standard or form an alliance.

Jessica, feel free to continue giving your opinion. I wasn't offended by anything you've said so far.

Mike (who is also trying not to offend anyone)


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Unread 24-06-2002, 00:00
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common database

Posted by Joe Ross at 2/4/2001 4:10 AM EST


Engineer on team #330, Beach Bot, from Hope Chapel Academy and NASA/JPL , J&F Machine, and Raytheon.


In Reply to: Re: Point...
Posted by Mike Soukup on 2/3/2001 12:12 PM EST:



I agree that it is too late to do a common scouting system for this year. But, I do have a few ideas for next year.

The way that I see it, there are many different databases, each with its own specialty and quirks. This obviously has its disadvantages. It also has many advantages because there are certain things that ateam looks for in a database. By doing their own, a team can get exactly what they want.

I have an idea for how to combine the best of both systems. It all relys upon a common database that is shared among all teams.

This database would have to encompase all the different features of the each team's this year. This means that it has to have detailed robot info entered by the team, have much scouting data, and also have detailed match information.

This database would be what everything revolves around. the database, with its commmon format, would then be availible for anyone to make any type of interface.

For example, Nate Smith seems to be very good at programming a palm. He could create a data entry system for the palm/visor. Once he is finished, he could release it to the rest of the FIRST community for use for entering data into the database.

Some other team may make a really cool application for entering in match data. Another team might make a web interface for searching the robot section of the database, and someone else might make a cool way to look at the match data. Another team might design a wireless network that could be used to enter data.

By using each teams strengths, we could make a killer system.

The biggest problem with this system is the design and maintenence of the database. It would take a while and a lot of input so that the database has everything that everyone would be interseted. Then we also would need a central location to host the database. Each team would be able to update it, but there would need to be one copy that is considered the main one.

This is where the person who isn't affiliated with a team comes in. That person would be in charge of the maintenece of the database. It wouldn't have to be someone not affiliated with a team, but there would need to be one person who would step up and take charge of the database.

In short, what I am proposing is a common databases with many different UIs.

That is my 3 cents.


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