HDPE or ICE FLOOR

[gorrilla]

Originally Posted by Elgin Clock

I'm thinking that if it's drifting on carpet, the carpet will bunch up even more on the ends of the field than it already does, but I would like to see that (drifting) happen on a game one of these years for low (height-wise) robots only - for tipping safety concerns of course.

it would be fun (to do and watch)

i saw teams do it this year.....

[DMetalKong]

Originally Posted by lilstogi11

This is actually a serious question:

What do you guys think of teams drifting around on the field during a match?

Controlled drifts, of course.

Need for Speed: Underground - FIRST Style. Teams are awarded points depending on the length of their drifts.

I predict an increase in the demand for mecanum wheels.

[Brandon Holley]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

It's not impossible, but it's rather unlikely we'll get a field like that.

I agree that the possibility of that happening is very slim, but I envisioned the topic at hand being able to handle a terrain not seen in FIRST games before.

[nitsua60]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

I can only think of one recent year, 2003, where HDPE was a surface you HAD to interact with to be competitive, and even then, the most dominant team just used roughtop tread. 111 didn't win because they could push, they won becuase they employed a superior strategy for controlling the top; ramps and a crab drive.

...

In 2004, teams thought they had to climb onto the HDPE platforms to hang from the bar, some made radically complex drivetrains to achieve this. When I saw 60/67/254 hang from the ground (and 60/254 at AMAZING speed as they used their drive motors to power their winch) and completely ignore the platform, I was inspired. Not only did they not have to design any radical crazy drivetrain to climb onto the platform, allowing them to stick with a simple 6 wheel, they were able hang faster than anyone.

I highly doubt that, "Lets push", "No, lets push HARDER!", will ever be a good strategy in FIRST. You can't mention 71 in 2002 as a counterexample, as their extreme pushing ability was just one piece of the puzzle that made their robot dominant that year.

I've been away from the game for 10 years and am returning as a rookie mentor. Is there anywhere that documents the various successful (and spectacularly unsuccessful) teams from year to year? Their strategies, tactics, designs, and capabilities? I'd love to read up and have some of my kids learn more about the different year's challenges and contendors. Thanks,

-mca

[EricH]

Originally Posted by nitsua60

I've been away from the game for 10 years and am returning as a rookie mentor. Is there anywhere that documents the various successful (and spectacularly unsuccessful) teams from year to year? Their strategies, tactics, designs, and capabilities? I'd love to read up and have some of my kids learn more about the different year's challenges and contendors. Thanks,

-mca

Other than Chief Delphi, I would HIGHLY recommend The Blue Alliance (TBA) as a source on this. For anything 2006 or newer, they probably have match video to watch.

Next up: the two Behind the Design books (FIRST Robots: Behind the Design and Behind the Design: Rack n' Roll ) cover 30 designs each from 2006 and 2007 respectively. These were developed by FIRST and published by Rockport Publishing. As a team, you want at least one of the two, and probably both. We're talking the next best thing to sticking your head in a top-quality robot.

There are some legends out there that you may have missed: Beatty 2002, for example. Look around Chief Delphi for that robot. This is widely held to be one of the best FRC robots ever.

For the rules, FIRST has some old manuals up on their website. You might look through those, as there have been a lot of changes from your time. Alliance size is the biggest.

If you'd like to PM or email me, go ahead and I'll see if I can help you out.

[Bsteckler]

Just a thought

For a completely ice or HDPE floor or track, I wouldn't go with a drivetrain at all, I would do this.

Only problem is that since they don't interact with the floor, they have bad climbing and poor traction.

any rubber-on-floor method for ice/HDPE would have its drawbacks, as there is still a loss of traction involved when the rubber doesn't grip the floor. Not to mention the fact that since the floor is low-friction, it would be hard to stop or turn the bot once it started going. One of these would be complex to build, but any team that attempted it would be granted the engineering award x10, but that's just MHO.

[GBIT]

Originally Posted by Bsteckler

Just a thought

For a completely ice or HDPE floor or track, I wouldn't go with a drivetrain at all, I would do this.

Only problem is that since they don't interact with the floor, they have bad climbing and poor traction.

any rubber-on-floor method for ice/HDPE would have its drawbacks, as there is still a loss of traction involved when the rubber doesn't grip the floor. Not to mention the fact that since the floor is low-friction, it would be hard to stop or turn the bot once it started going. One of these would be complex to build, but any team that attempted it would be granted the engineering award x10, but that's just MHO.

The only downside to this design is trying to obtain enough lift and propulsion with the voltage put out by the batteries, but i agree if a team could pull it off it would be pretty cool...

[Alex Dinsmoor]

The hovercraft idea would be an amazing feat, but what is the durability of the skirt? I think we all know how much our robots get beat up in matches.

[Robert Cawthon]

How would you attach the (probably) required regulation bumpers on the hovercraft?

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by GBIT

The only downside to this design is trying to obtain enough lift and propulsion with the voltage put out by the batteries, but i agree if a team could pull it off it would be pretty cool...

Lift and propulsion is easy. Less than 1 PSID is needed between the underside of the robot and the topside. Propulsion is even easier once lift is attained as traction goes way down.

Originally Posted by Alex Dinsmoor

The hovercraft idea would be an amazing feat, but what is the durability of the skirt? I think we all know how much our robots get beat up in matches.

There are many excellent fabrics that (such as multi layered Kevlar) that would be very suitable and wear resistant. You'd need to design the cloth pattern for the skirt properly and you might want to weigh down the bottom to prevent the cloth from not unfurling properly.

Originally Posted by Robert Cawthon

How would you attach the (probably) required regulation bumpers on the hovercraft?

Attaching the bumpers is easy, the question would be if the bumpers must stay in the "bumper zone" during play. If so then they would have to either articulate or would have to be positioned so that your cushion height does not move them out of the "bumper zone". Gotta love engineering challanges

[Bsteckler]

Didn't the rule regarding bumpers specify that only standard ones could be exempted from the dimensions? Not to say that rule will show up again, but the skirt could probably be considered a "nonstandard bumper" and there wouldn't be a problem with the size, since it would be bundled up either on the sides or on the bottom of the robot.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by Bsteckler

Didn't the rule regarding bumpers specify that only standard ones could be exempted from the dimensions? Not to say that rule will show up again, but the skirt could probably be considered a "nonstandard bumper" and there wouldn't be a problem with the size, since it would be bundled up either on the sides or on the bottom of the robot.

Lat year 'standard' bumpers were required.

This year ... well, we'll find out in 6 days

[Tottanka]

This thread is kinda funny now after kickoff

[smurfgirl]

Originally Posted by Tottanka

This thread is kinda funny now after kickoff

Yes, it is.

I know what wheels I'd use... they came in the kit, but I bet we'll be the only robot with them. I don't think people realize just how innovative they are, and they may overlook them when designing their robots

[Pokemonking]

Hdpe , they gave you wheels to start with