2009 Tournament Structure.

[EricVicenti]

I noticed this yesterday and mostly agree.

Aside from that, I don't think they will be capable of lowering the total number of robots in a match lower than 6 for scheduling reasons. Because of the relatively inflexible field shape, I doubt they will switch to a 2v2v2, unless the partners are opposite eachother. A differently shaped field will cause issues for audience/judge visibility, regional floor space, team cueing, alliance fairness (as far as seeing the screen etc.). Also, a 2v2v2 will make it very unfair to alliances with missing/dead robots. Not to mention how the tournement and elimenations would be structured.

I think any fundemental changes will be in the way the game works and is strucutred, perhaps in conjunction with a different ranking system, maybe elimenating or reducing competition from the game.

[Roger]

I would say that eventually they may have to up the number of robots on the field -- there are, after all, getting too many teams and a limited number of regionals. It may end up being smaller robots just to fit any decent activity in a game. Granted, the field size is set (I hope I hope! Our robot room is just about the right size!), but there are still possibilites. Aim High started the six robots at midfield. A 2v2v2v2 could be (2+2)v(2+2) doing two different but conflicting actions in a plus-sign starting formation.

In seven years when this actually happens, remember, I said it here first!

Didn't Mad Magazine, always in the forefront of expectations, once described a game with a five-sided field?

[Rae4lyfe91]

Originally Posted by Roger

I would say that eventually they may have to up the number of robots on the field -- there are, after all, getting too many teams and a limited number of regionals. It may end up being smaller robots just to fit any decent activity in a game. Granted, the field size is set (I hope I hope! Our robot room is just about the right size!), but there are still possibilites. Aim High started the six robots at midfield. A 2v2v2v2 could be (2+2)v(2+2) doing two different but conflicting actions in a plus-sign starting formation.

In seven years when this actually happens, remember, I said it here first!

Didn't Mad Magazine, always in the forefront of expectations, once described a game with a five-sided field?

i think that they will keep it 3v3. . .any lower than that and yes it will make the compitions longer. .and more than that and it might get comfusing

[,4lex S.]

3v3 seems to work quite well, and I doubt many changes will happen to that format for the foreseeable future. I can't see FRC ever becoming a total cooperation based competition, mainly because of the idea of giving FIRST the energy and power of a sporting event. In general, the most popular sports seem to be team sports of a competitive nature.

Also, if you read section 3.6.1.1, it mentions a 'human player'. It could be a remnant from copied text from a previous year, or just a redefinition of robocoach. But... speculation away!!!

[ATannahill]

Originally Posted by ,4lex S.

3v3 seems to work quite well, and I doubt many changes will happen to that format for the foreseeable future. I can't see FRC ever becoming a total cooperation based competition, mainly because of the idea of giving FIRST the energy and power of a sporting event. In general, the most popular sports seem to be team sports of a competitive nature.

Also, if you read section 3.6.1.1, it mentions a 'human player'. It could be a remnant from copied text from a previous year, or just a redefinition of robocoach. But... speculation away!!!

I noticed the reference to human players too, but if you go to last year's manual it says the same thing. Another thing to look at is that human players from 2005 or 2008 (probably other years too) could not practice if their robot was not on the field.

[Raumiester2010]

Ya, i don't think they will be changing the Field too much. remember, they need to keep it within a regulation size basketball court because (not too sure about the other states but) all of the Michigan District events are going to be held in High School Gyms. They could shrink it but i doubt it. and when you mentioned the 2001 game, I gagged a little inside. I hope they don't make it a 6 V 0 game this year. Doubt they would do that though. Oh well, we just need to survive for 3 days, 15 hours, and 57 minuets more until kickoff. and then the typical two hour speechifying.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by Raumiester2010

Ya, i don't think they will be changing the Field too much. remember, they need to keep it within a regulation size basketball court because (not too sure about the other states but) all of the Michigan District events are going to be held in High School Gyms.

Actually, only 3 of the MI district events will be at high schools. The rest will be at universities or convention centers.

That doesn't change the fact that all indications point to a 6-robot (3v3) game.

[Robert Cawthon]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

That doesn't change the fact that all indications point to a 6-robot (3v3) game.

Of course, there is no indication that it isn't going to be a 3V3 game, but imagination is not restricted to reality. If it were, how boring my world would be.

[Doug G]

Regional layouts show a reserved area of similar size field to previous years. For what it is worth.

[ATannahill]

Where did you find the layouts?

[Doug G]

Originally Posted by rtfgnow

Where did you find the layouts?

Volunteer for one of the regional planning committee's and you may get to see these. It's not a big deal, basically it shows where pits, admin desk, judges area, etc will be located. Of course it just shows how much space is set aside for the playing field which looked to be the same as years past. It doesn't reveal the shape of the field or anything. Some folks talked on the thread about the possibility of the game being 2v2v2v2 which to me would mean a noticable adjustment of the field size which I think is highly doubtful.

[Enigma's puzzle]

i can't see FIRST going to an odd number of alliances it would be a pain to keep it fair, with visuals and what not.
but a 2v2v2v2 would be interesting, cramming two teams on each end, they could eliminate the robocoach or put the coach on side, But that would change the entire tournamment. I don't see this happening either because it would be way too easy for the top teams to make an unstoppable alliance, the top player in the alliance would have an enourmous advantage. But it would be incredble if they paired all the teams up for the tournament, 1st with last, 2nd with 2nd to last, etc.

[Jake177]

I doubt that there will ever be anytihng other than "X vs X" again. The 2001 game was 4vs0 (4 bots working together on one set of tasks) and a lot of people didn't like that structure. There have also been games that were 1vs1vs1 but these had problems with 2 teams ganging up on the other one. So I think that as long as the number of teams keeps increasing we'll see games change to 4vs4, 5vs5, etc.