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#16
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Re: FRC Top 25- Preseason Ranking
I would say this poll is just like the preseason NCAA football poll... subject to change greatly by the end of the season
At least we won't be using this poll to try and crown our champion... |
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#17
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Re: FRC Top 25- Preseason Ranking
Quote:
![]() Both are just popularity contests and have nothing to do with on the field performance. |
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#18
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Re: FRC Top 25- Preseason Ranking
Then there are teams that fit the criteria better that were left off in favor of teams that seem to only fit the list because they are popular. What is a better model of consistency than winning 3 straight divisions or having one hugely successful year? What is a better measure of robot design, having your design copied by ~20 other teams in first or having an unsuccessful copy of that robot? What about the team that has won IRI the most, are they consistent? What about a team that has beaten the number one team on this list every time they have played them. There are teams that fit each of the first criteria that were not on this list for completely unknown reasons. PM me, and I will give you the teams that I think this list is missing. Also, i don't want to sound like i am slighting any team on this list, there are teams on this list that I like a lot, but they do not fit the criteria given as well as other teams.
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#19
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Re: FRC Top 25- Preseason Ranking
I think they should do this for every team and then do a bowl system like the NCAAF do. Put each state into its own division, do regionals throughout the state and then set up "bowl games" in atlanta and the best 6 picked by the Head Committee at FIRST plays in the Championship match
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#20
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Re: FRC Top 25- Preseason Ranking
Lets not jump on the negatives on this list too much. I believe the goal here is to make FIRST more similar to sports, and I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing (I know others may disagree). The second goal is to have a fun consensus of who our role model teams are; who should my team try to be more like.
The thing about any preseason poll, is that it is a popularity contest and based off of information that we have from previous seasons. That also brings the point of "how do you measure best team"? Regardless the discussion, we are unaware any answers until we at least know the competition, and see a few weeks of matches. The reason there are teams missing is because the "consensus" is based off of the opinions of 6 people, and statistics teaches us that is too small of a sample size to represent the population of opinions of the FIRST community. Each opinion is biased toward local teams. I don't think anyone can fault that the opinion that these 25 are excellent teams, and if you were to only have a limit of 25, there will always be arguments for those that did not make the list. I would argue for team 359 the Hawaiian kids and 476 the Wildcats from Oklahoma. How about we steer this conversation in a productive manner. Lets perhaps figure out what conditions would make this idea not a popularity contest. We all know the top juggernaut teams. If we could figure out which weeks they play, then perhaps a ranking beginning after their first competitions would be okay. The BCS doesn't attempt to rank teams until after at least a 3rd of the way through the season. What other suggestion can we come up with? Last edited by Barry Bonzack : 31-12-2008 at 20:08. |
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#21
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Re: FRC Top 25- Preseason Ranking
Post up the other 26 please. If you can.
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#22
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Re: FRC Top 25- Preseason Ranking
I'm surprised BUZZ (175) isn't on the list. While they fly under the radar pretty well (unless you're competing against them) it seems like they always build a high quality machine that performs really well in Atlanta. They've got the consistent credentials too, with at least 1 regional win every year since 2000. Not to mention, they were Divisional champions in 2003, 2004, AND 2005! While perhaps not quite Beatty or Poofs, that's still "knock-your-socks-off" impressive!
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#23
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Re: FRC Top 25- Preseason Ranking
Quote:
I hereby issue my recognition to every member, be it a student, mentor, teacher, parent or sponsor, of F.I.R.S.T.* as a great person who has worked hard and is great because of what they have done. *For Inspiration and Recognition of Science and Technology Last edited by ATannahill : 31-12-2008 at 21:15. |
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#24
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Re: FRC Top 25- Preseason Ranking
This.
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#25
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Re: FRC Top 25- Preseason Ranking
Well, then I guess we should ban Looking Forward and shut down the Fantasy First forum (which you seem to be pretty active in).
There will always be people that think that these types of activities are discouraging to the teams that don't make the list. I personally find these activities fun and I hope they continue. I have written my opinion in two very similar threads before so I will just quote those posts here instead of trying to say the same thing over. Quote:
Quote:
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#26
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Re: FRC Top 25- Preseason Ranking
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#27
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Re: FRC Top 25- Preseason Ranking
HIs point is merely that teams should not feel discouraged or presume things about other teams when they see this.
Everyone just chill and enjoy the new year for once. Just wait to argue and all that junk come January 3rd. lol |
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#28
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Re: FRC Top 25- Preseason Ranking
This right here is what I hate about FIRST, elitism at its finest. All that this list is, is a few people who have forgotten what the point of FIRST is trying to force their opinions on everyone. Intentional or not the result is the same, you just made a lot of people feel like crap.
I ask that if something like this is to continue, everyone should have the opurtunity to vote once, perferably not for their own team either. P.S. If you look at my name and just tune out because of previous comments that you didn't like... well I won't go there, this is chiefdelphi things are taken the wrong way all the time. |
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#29
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Re: FRC Top 25- Preseason Ranking
Two thing:
I think this is a really great idea, but remember its only 6 unnamed people. I'm sure the 6 people of highly knowledgeable, but we cannot be sure. Also, as stated before, 6 is an extremly small sample size and probably not a random cross section of FIRST. Perhaps we could run some nomination process and pick 25 voters to do a weekly top 25. Secondly, I don't really think this is a bad idea. If I was a rookie team or any team not on the list, I first wouldn't be too upset because, remember, its only 6 people's opinion. I would then look at those 25 teams, learn more about them and try to emulate some of thier most sucessful practices and what makes them on the list. I would look at this as an opportunity to find teams to look up to and get inspired from. |
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#30
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Re: FRC Top 25- Preseason Ranking
I don't see how a list like this is really a bad thing... if anything it tells rookies which teams are likely to do well at a competition and gives them a heads up to go check out their pit. If someone had told me in 2006 "team 60 builds awesome robots and performs really well at competitions" then I would have gone to visit their pit and oogle their robot at the Arizona regional. Now I know better.
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