Go to Post I found another student once at a Cross Country meet because she was wearing a team shirt. I must say, I was surprised. I should start wearing my team shirt around more often. - TheBoulderite [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > FIRST > General Forum
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-01-2009, 17:31
Chris Hibner's Avatar Unsung FIRST Hero
Chris Hibner Chris Hibner is offline
Eschewing Obfuscation Since 1990
AKA: Lars Kamen's Roadie
FRC #0051 (Wings of Fire)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: May 2001
Rookie Year: 1997
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 1,488
Chris Hibner has a reputation beyond reputeChris Hibner has a reputation beyond reputeChris Hibner has a reputation beyond reputeChris Hibner has a reputation beyond reputeChris Hibner has a reputation beyond reputeChris Hibner has a reputation beyond reputeChris Hibner has a reputation beyond reputeChris Hibner has a reputation beyond reputeChris Hibner has a reputation beyond reputeChris Hibner has a reputation beyond reputeChris Hibner has a reputation beyond repute
Ball Color Problem

Here is a minor thing that I'm hoping FIRST can maybe change.

While I was looking at the manual, my wife asked me what the difference was between the moon rocks and the empty cells. She is slightly color blind and cannot at all distinguish between the blue and the purple on those balls.

Obviously this is a bit of a problem from a spectator standpoint (for those unfortunate to have some degree of color blindness), but I really feel for drivers and coaches that may have this problem.

My wife suggests a red/blue ball rather than the orange purple. She says she can see the difference between the orange and red, but not the blue and purple.

Anyway, just a minor issue.
__________________
-
An ounce of perception is worth a pound of obscure.
Reply With Quote
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-01-2009, 17:33
gorrilla's Avatar
gorrilla gorrilla is offline
1557 alumni, 4639 mentor
AKA: adam spears
FRC #4639 (RoboSpartans)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Houston
Posts: 958
gorrilla has a brilliant futuregorrilla has a brilliant futuregorrilla has a brilliant futuregorrilla has a brilliant futuregorrilla has a brilliant futuregorrilla has a brilliant futuregorrilla has a brilliant futuregorrilla has a brilliant futuregorrilla has a brilliant futuregorrilla has a brilliant futuregorrilla has a brilliant future
Re: Ball Color Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hibner View Post
Here is a minor thing that I'm hoping FIRST can maybe change.

While I was looking at the manual, my wife asked me what the difference was between the moon rocks and the empty cells. She is slightly color blind and cannot at all distinguish between the blue and the purple on those balls.

Obviously this is a bit of a problem from a spectator standpoint (for those unfortunate to have some degree of color blindness), but I really feel for drivers and coaches that may have this problem.

My wife suggests a red/blue ball rather than the orange purple. She says she can see the difference between the orange and red, but not the blue and purple.

Anyway, just a minor issue.

some people with color blindness cant see reds either......
but still, they probobly took that int account when they were designing the game.....
__________________
Adam Spears



Team 1557 2007-2011 student-Lake County FL

Current Team 4639 mentor- Houston TX
Reply With Quote
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-01-2009, 17:38
pentau pentau is offline
Registered User
AKA: Will
FRC #0449 (Blair Robot Project)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Bethesda, MD
Posts: 79
pentau is a glorious beacon of lightpentau is a glorious beacon of lightpentau is a glorious beacon of lightpentau is a glorious beacon of lightpentau is a glorious beacon of light
Send a message via AIM to pentau
Re: Ball Color Problem

Yeah, I noticed this too. I'm red/green color-blind and I couldn't distinguish at all between the blue and purple strips and only very faintly distinguish between the red and orange strips.

Perhaps the empty and super cells' marked in some other way... (since there are only 16 total).
__________________

Last edited by pentau : 03-01-2009 at 17:40.
Reply With Quote
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-01-2009, 17:44
thefro526's Avatar
thefro526 thefro526 is offline
Mentor for Hire.
AKA: Dustin Benedict
no team (EWCP, MAR, FRC 708)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 2,599
thefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to thefro526 Send a message via MSN to thefro526
Re: Ball Color Problem

I thought of this too when I was sitting with some teammates eating lunch.

Our coach is some what color blind so we'll have to see how that plays out.
__________________
-Dustin Benedict
2005-2012 - Student & Mentor FRC 816
2012-2014 - Technical Mentor, 2014 Drive Coach FRC 341
Current - Mentor FRC 2729, FRC 708
Reply With Quote
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-01-2009, 17:45
DanDon's Avatar
DanDon DanDon is offline
ohhh MY god
AKA: Dan Hoizner
FRC #0375 (The Robotic Plague)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Staten Island, NY
Posts: 1,432
DanDon has a reputation beyond reputeDanDon has a reputation beyond reputeDanDon has a reputation beyond reputeDanDon has a reputation beyond reputeDanDon has a reputation beyond reputeDanDon has a reputation beyond reputeDanDon has a reputation beyond reputeDanDon has a reputation beyond reputeDanDon has a reputation beyond reputeDanDon has a reputation beyond reputeDanDon has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via ICQ to DanDon Send a message via AIM to DanDon Send a message via MSN to DanDon
Re: Ball Color Problem

Having just bought empty cells and super cells at the local Wal*mart, this turns out to be a not so small issue, not only for people affected by colorblindness, but also for people with perfect vision. Being able to tell if you're carrying more than one empty cell during the heat of the moment, as opposed to one empty cell and one moon rock will be extremely difficult under tournament conditions (i.e. lighting, glare, robot traffic, etc.).
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-01-2009, 17:46
smartkid's Avatar
smartkid smartkid is offline
Boom!
AKA: Cody Smith
FRC #1902 (Exploding Bacon)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 81
smartkid has a spectacular aura aboutsmartkid has a spectacular aura about
Re: Ball Color Problem

I'm not color blind but I am legally blind and I too cannot really tell the difference without being rather close.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-01-2009, 17:52
thefro526's Avatar
thefro526 thefro526 is offline
Mentor for Hire.
AKA: Dustin Benedict
no team (EWCP, MAR, FRC 708)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 2,599
thefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to thefro526 Send a message via MSN to thefro526
Re: Ball Color Problem

Here's a picture from The Blue Alliance of all the different balls for reference

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3112/...e48bc1.jpg?v=0
__________________
-Dustin Benedict
2005-2012 - Student & Mentor FRC 816
2012-2014 - Technical Mentor, 2014 Drive Coach FRC 341
Current - Mentor FRC 2729, FRC 708
Reply With Quote
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-01-2009, 17:55
bduddy bduddy is offline
Registered User
FRC #0840 (ART)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: San Bruno, CA
Posts: 869
bduddy has a reputation beyond reputebduddy has a reputation beyond reputebduddy has a reputation beyond reputebduddy has a reputation beyond reputebduddy has a reputation beyond reputebduddy has a reputation beyond reputebduddy has a reputation beyond reputebduddy has a reputation beyond reputebduddy has a reputation beyond reputebduddy has a reputation beyond reputebduddy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Ball Color Problem

^ Love that avatar (to smartkid if someone else posts first)... and I sympathize with the topic creator's problem. I'm not even colorblind, and I had a hard time telling the balls apart. Let's hope FIRST can be convinced to use better contrasting colors, or else this will be another officiating nightmare... I'm starting to be relieved they didn't let me be a ref! Aiden certainly won't be able to bring his newspaper to the real games...
__________________

Does anyone else remember when TBA signatures actually worked?
Reply With Quote
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-01-2009, 17:57
dtengineering's Avatar
dtengineering dtengineering is offline
Teaching Teachers to Teach Tech
AKA: Jason Brett
no team (British Columbia FRC teams)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 1,833
dtengineering has a reputation beyond reputedtengineering has a reputation beyond reputedtengineering has a reputation beyond reputedtengineering has a reputation beyond reputedtengineering has a reputation beyond reputedtengineering has a reputation beyond reputedtengineering has a reputation beyond reputedtengineering has a reputation beyond reputedtengineering has a reputation beyond reputedtengineering has a reputation beyond reputedtengineering has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Ball Color Problem

It seems it wouldn't be too hard to suspend a blinking LED in the middle of a super cell using elastic bands.... although given the rules, perhaps an empty cell would be a better one to have stand out.

It is quite possible that this is an oversight by the GDC that they would like to rectify. Perhaps try redirecting this question to the Q&A forums.

Good point, I hope there is a solution,

Jason

Edit: a lycra cover over the cells might do the trick, too. The fabric ball cover worked last year.
Reply With Quote
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-01-2009, 18:02
Branden Ghena's Avatar
Branden Ghena Branden Ghena is offline
Previously: tawnos23
FRC #0240 (TEMPEST)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Houghton, Michigan (MTU)
Posts: 303
Branden Ghena has a spectacular aura aboutBranden Ghena has a spectacular aura aboutBranden Ghena has a spectacular aura about
Re: Ball Color Problem

This could probably be easily fixed by FIRST. They could just wrap some electrical tape in stripes around the ribbons of the empty cells. The stripes should make the balls easy enough to distinguish without changing the balls (i.e. stopping hooks from grabbing them or raising their coefficient of friction)
__________________
Branden Ghena - Michigan Tech Student and Team 240 Alumnus
Working Towards: Electrical Engineering and Computer Engineering Double Major

"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us." - Gandalf

Last edited by Branden Ghena : 03-01-2009 at 18:03. Reason: To Clarify
Reply With Quote
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-01-2009, 18:02
Alex Cormier's Avatar
Alex Cormier Alex Cormier is offline
www.TwoPencilDesigns.com
AKA: Grizz, Twinkletoes, PitBull1126
FRC #1405
Team Role: Coach
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 5,583
Alex Cormier has a reputation beyond reputeAlex Cormier has a reputation beyond reputeAlex Cormier has a reputation beyond reputeAlex Cormier has a reputation beyond reputeAlex Cormier has a reputation beyond reputeAlex Cormier has a reputation beyond reputeAlex Cormier has a reputation beyond reputeAlex Cormier has a reputation beyond reputeAlex Cormier has a reputation beyond reputeAlex Cormier has a reputation beyond reputeAlex Cormier has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Ball Color Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by thefro526 View Post
Here's a picture from The Blue Alliance of all the different balls for reference

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3112/...e48bc1.jpg?v=0
I have some color issues as well, looking at the manual I was having issues. But when I looked at the TBA picture, I could see the difference a little bit more. This is one of the worst decisions i have seen FIRST make for such an important point of the game design.
__________________

Two Pencil Designs - Vinyl Graphics, Bumper Numbers, and Strategy Items!
Like us on Facebook & follow us on Twitter
Facebook.com/TwoPencilDesigns & TwoPencilDesign
Reply With Quote
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-01-2009, 18:03
DtD's Avatar
DtD DtD is offline
I hope the watchdog starves!
AKA: Pathogen David
FRC #2410 (The Metal Mustangs (Merged from 2334, Hazmat Robotics))
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 86
DtD will become famous soon enoughDtD will become famous soon enough
Re: Ball Color Problem

I'm Red/Green Colorblind, and I can only barely distinguish the Moon Rock and the Empty Cell when looking straight at them when they aren't moving (EG: If I pause the video or look at a picture) otherwise they are identical. This is rather annoying because I was hoping to drive for my team this year. (I designed the way it was driven, but never actually drove it till after the comp last year )

~DtD
Reply With Quote
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-01-2009, 18:04
flyingcrayons's Avatar
flyingcrayons flyingcrayons is offline
Team 1089 Alum. RU Class of 2015.
FRC #1089 (Team Mercury)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: jersey
Posts: 418
flyingcrayons has much to be proud offlyingcrayons has much to be proud offlyingcrayons has much to be proud offlyingcrayons has much to be proud offlyingcrayons has much to be proud offlyingcrayons has much to be proud offlyingcrayons has much to be proud offlyingcrayons has much to be proud offlyingcrayons has much to be proud of
Re: Ball Color Problem

yeah our team was discussing this... everything mentioned here was discussed, from the trouble distinguishing the balls for all people, especially color-blind people.

also discussed was the trouble the judges will have since they may not even be able to distinguish the balls... this could be a real hindrance, or it could be an interesting twist to this already very interestong game
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-01-2009, 18:07
smartkid's Avatar
smartkid smartkid is offline
Boom!
AKA: Cody Smith
FRC #1902 (Exploding Bacon)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 81
smartkid has a spectacular aura aboutsmartkid has a spectacular aura about
Re: Ball Color Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by bduddy View Post
^ Love that avatar (to smartkid if someone else posts first)...
Thanks! I put that together in Photoshop using a backdrop from a project of mine and a picture of Jeremy from Code Lyoko. I love that show!
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-01-2009, 18:19
usbcd36's Avatar
usbcd36 usbcd36 is offline
Registered User
AKA: "DOS"
FRC #2399 (The Fighting Unicorns)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Solon, OH
Posts: 151
usbcd36 is a jewel in the roughusbcd36 is a jewel in the roughusbcd36 is a jewel in the rough
Re: Ball Color Problem

I'm not colorblind at all, but judging from the picture, I would not be able to tell the difference between the two without close examination.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Does the Trackball Color Match your team Color??? ZInventor Kit & Additional Hardware 14 07-03-2008 20:09
WHere do you get Ball Casters/ BAll Transfers for FRC?!?!?!? leehyungjin4u General Forum 3 15-01-2008 23:27
Camera Color Recognition Problem? AnkurG Technical Discussion 3 20-01-2005 21:52
What color would go good with a Yellow and a Purple? (Think 2X and 5pt Ball colors) Elgin Clock Chit-Chat 17 06-10-2004 15:50
Small ball inflation problem Mike8519 General Forum 9 06-03-2004 05:33


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 19:43.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi