Removing game pieces from Trailers

[Ziaholic]

Whew! I was wondering when this thread would start ... and I didn't have the gumption to start it myself ... but you've let the cat outta' the bag.

The only relevent rule I could find is: G32 Robot-to-Robot Interaction

It says that "contact outside of the BUMPER ZONE is not acceptable" which could rule out trying to stick an arm into somebody else's trailer (but not necessarilty your own trailer)

It's not really spelled out for us yet, but I don't think they want us digging around in each others trailers, trying to eject balls.

Perhaps the size envelope limitations are enough to ensure that we don't attempt that strategy. ... but I felt really good there for a while this morning thinking that my camera could detect a SUPER CELL in my trailer and toss it OUT as the timer reaches zero.

[ExarKun666]

Originally Posted by Ziaholic

Whew! I was wondering when this thread would start ... and I didn't have the gumption to start it myself ... but you've let the cat outta' the bag.

The only relevent rule I could find is: G32 Robot-to-Robot Interaction

It says that "contact outside of the BUMPER ZONE is not acceptable" which could rule out trying to stick an arm into somebody else's trailer (but not necessarilty your own trailer)

It's not really spelled out for us yet, but I don't think they want us digging around in each others trailers, trying to eject balls.

Perhaps the size envelope limitations are enough to ensure that we don't attempt that strategy. ... but I felt really good there for a while this morning thinking that my camera could detect a SUPER CELL in my trailer and toss it OUT as the timer reaches zero.

I found where it says that:

D. Contact with a tilted or tipped ROBOT outside the BUMPER ZONE (particularly by the
BUMPERS of the contacting ROBOT) will generally be considered incidental contact and
will not be penalized.
E. Contact outside of the BUMPER ZONE is not acceptable, and will result in a PENALTY.
The offending ROBOT may be disqualified from the MATCH if the offense is particularly
egregious or if it results in substantial damage to another ROBOT.
F. A ROBOT may not attach to and/or climb onto a ROBOT or TRAILER. Doing so will be
interpreted as an attempt to damage an opposing ROBOT, and will be penalized as
such.

Reaching into another trailer violates the out of bumper rule and might be considered attaching or climbing onto a trailer

[Tottanka]

ok, and what about blocking the 'entrance' to your own trailer?

[ExarKun666]

Originally Posted by Tottanka

ok, and what about blocking the 'entrance' to your own trailer?

That's prbly not allowed cause if you were to cover it, you would have to use your robot to do that, cause you can't build a cover on top of it, and if your robot does cover it, that violates the out of the bumper zone rule.

[ebarker]

Originally Posted by Tottanka

ok, and what about blocking the 'entrance' to your own trailer?

At all times the robot MUST fit in the 28" wide x 38" long x 60" high envelope

contact outside of the prescribed BUMPER zone is prohibited.

these two rules rule out

1) covering the trailer, or blocking the entrance
2) reaching into a trailer and removing rocks


It also means we cannot 'reach' over and drop rocks into a trailer
but we can 'shoot' them, similiar to the 2006 Aim-High game.


This game looks a lot like Aim-High, but with much shorter shooting distances.

[Jeffy]

Originally Posted by ebarker

It also means we cannot 'reach' over and drop rocks into a trailer
but we can 'shoot' them, similiar to the 2006 Aim-High game.

I have to ask, So your saying that we can't "reach" (ie outside of size limits), Right?

Or are u saying a "dumptruck" type design, even provided it fits while "dumping" would be out because of possible contact?

[ExarKun666]

Originally Posted by Jeffy

I have to ask, So your saying that we can't "reach" (ie outside of size limits), Right?

Or are u saying a "dumptruck" type design, even provided it fits while "dumping" would be out because of possible contact?

You can't reach outside your bumper zone but if you dumped it, and were extremely close to the opponent bot, I think, that's allowable, it's in the animation so why not

[The Megan 2207]

Originally Posted by ExarKun666

You can't reach outside your bumper zone but if you dumped it, and were extremely close to the opponent bot, I think, that's allowable, it's in the animation so why not

Which rule says you can't reach outside your bumper zone? I've read the Game rules and the Robot rules a few times looking for this, but all I have found is rule <R11> saying that the robot must stay within 28x38x60 inches. Rule <G32> states that contact outside the bumper zone is illegal, but if the piece of the robot that extends outside the bumper zone (such as a dumping mechanism) does not make contact with another robot or trailer, wouldn't it still be legal, given the robot remains within the specified dimensions?

[ExarKun666]

Originally Posted by The Megan 2207

Which rule says you can't reach outside your bumper zone? I've read the Game rules and the Robot rules a few times looking for this, but all I have found is rule <R11> saying that the robot must stay within 28x38x60 inches. Rule <G32> states that contact outside the bumper zone is illegal, but if the piece of the robot that extends outside the bumper zone (such as a dumping mechanism) does not make contact with another robot or trailer, wouldn't it still be legal, given the robot remains within the specified dimensions?

The following under <G32>

D. Contact with a tilted or tipped ROBOT outside the BUMPER ZONE (particularly by the
BUMPERS of the contacting ROBOT) will generally be considered incidental contact and
will not be penalized.
E. Contact outside of the BUMPER ZONE is not acceptable, and will result in a PENALTY.
The offending ROBOT may be disqualified from the MATCH if the offense is particularly
egregious or if it results in substantial damage to another ROBOT.
F. A ROBOT may not attach to and/or climb onto a ROBOT or TRAILER. Doing so will be
interpreted as an attempt to damage an opposing ROBOT, and will be penalized as
such.

[The Megan 2207]

I know that CONTACT outside the bumper zone is illegal (<G32>), but is it illegal for a robot that is smaller than the specified dimensions to extend outside its bumper zone during the match, but not touch any other robots?

[ATannahill]

Originally Posted by The Megan 2207

I know that CONTACT outside the bumper zone is illegal (<G32>), but is it illegal for a robot that is smaller than the specified dimensions to extend outside its bumper zone during the match, but not touch any other robots?

Yes. if you stay in 28"x38"x60"

[Xeno_117]

Originally Posted by rtfgnow

Yes. if you stay in 28"x38"x60"

Still, that means compressing your robot into a smaller space than usual (unless your a team that built a tiny drive train in overdrive). The best way one could do this is some kind of tower, which might be topheavy. ultimately, This idea is extremely hard to pull off. it would take a stroke of genius for one topic in a forum to do this.

[ATannahill]

Originally Posted by Xeno_117

Still, that means compressing your robot into a smaller space than usual (unless your a team that built a tiny drive train in overdrive). The best way one could do this is some kind of tower, which might be topheavy. ultimately, This idea is extremely hard to pull off. it would take a stroke of genius for one topic in a forum to do this.

I was not saying that it was a good idea or that they should do it, I was just clarifying a rule. On the other hand I do not want that first sentence to make you not do it.

P.S. I would not put it past F.I.R.S.T.* to declare in the first update that we can expand from the starting position, putting us all back a few days in design.

*For Inspiration and Recognition of Science and Technology

[ebarker]

Originally Posted by Jeffy

I have to ask, So your saying that we can't "reach" (ie outside of size limits), Right?

Or are u saying a "dumptruck" type design, even provided it fits while "dumping" would be out because of possible contact?

you flat out cannot go outside the defined envelope.

but if you had a little ball gun, like in aim-high, you could toss them over to the trailer, or if you had a big gun you could shoot them across the room.

if you had a little gun on the top that could spit them into the trailer in front of you, or into the corner pocket.

but you definitely cannot reach outside of the limit

[taylort]

I think that any discussion of de-scoring is pretty moot, from a logistics perspective.
Even if you can de-score balls in your own trailer, there are still two other trailers on your alliance that the opposing alliance is now focusing on because they know you'll try to de-score their pieces. So, now your de-scoring is for nothing.
Secondly, the energy and time you spend de-scoring pieces could be much more efficiently and effectively in legally scoring pieces as the game is designed...which seems much more graciously professional to me.

Overall, the gain of de-scoring opposing pieces is negligible compared to the penalty risk for outside of bumper zone contact as well as the loss of time you could be using to score your own moon rocks.