Removing game pieces from Trailers

[PhilBot]

Is it just me or is there a general lack of rules regarding removing game pieces from trailers?

OK, I know the robot can't extend beyond the 28x38x50 size, so it's hard to make a boom to reach out and remove balls from your own traler, or from a team mate's... but if your robot was built smaller, eg: 28x24 it's possible that you could reach out 14" into a team-mate's tralier and remove their balls (so to speak).

Can't see where the rules prevent this.???

Likewise, any reason why your robot can't reach back and sheild your own trailer or flick balls out when they get deposited?

What have I missed?

Phil.

[XaulZan11]

Yeah, I was thinking/looking at the same thing. One thing that makes it very hard to block/descore from your own trailer is the trailer needs to behind the short side (28). So, since the trailer is 7 inches from your robot and assuming you need atleast 3 inches to descore, I think it would be very hard to build a robot in at the very most 18 inches.

Descoring from other's trailer's may be more plausable, but unless done with insanly skill, two robots will have to be stopped, which would allow for two very easy targets.

[ExarKun666]

Originally Posted by PhilBot

Can't see where the rules prevent this.???

<G32> ROBOT to ROBOT Interaction - Strategies aimed solely at the destruction, damage, tipping
over, or entanglement of ROBOTS or TRAILERS are not in the spirit of the FRC and are not
allowed. In all cases involving ROBOT-to-ROBOT or ROBOT-to-TRAILER contact, the
TEAM may receive a PENALTY and/or their ROBOT may be disqualified if the interaction is
inappropriate or excessive. However, it is noted that Lunacy is a highly interactive game.
Robust construction of ROBOTS will be very important in this high-speed competition.
ROBOTS should be designed to withstand the contact that will occur during the MATCH.

the bold part might include alliance bots too, I might be mistaken

[Ziaholic]

Whew! I was wondering when this thread would start ... and I didn't have the gumption to start it myself ... but you've let the cat outta' the bag.

The only relevent rule I could find is: G32 Robot-to-Robot Interaction

It says that "contact outside of the BUMPER ZONE is not acceptable" which could rule out trying to stick an arm into somebody else's trailer (but not necessarilty your own trailer)

It's not really spelled out for us yet, but I don't think they want us digging around in each others trailers, trying to eject balls.

Perhaps the size envelope limitations are enough to ensure that we don't attempt that strategy. ... but I felt really good there for a while this morning thinking that my camera could detect a SUPER CELL in my trailer and toss it OUT as the timer reaches zero.

[ExarKun666]

Originally Posted by Ziaholic

Whew! I was wondering when this thread would start ... and I didn't have the gumption to start it myself ... but you've let the cat outta' the bag.

The only relevent rule I could find is: G32 Robot-to-Robot Interaction

It says that "contact outside of the BUMPER ZONE is not acceptable" which could rule out trying to stick an arm into somebody else's trailer (but not necessarilty your own trailer)

It's not really spelled out for us yet, but I don't think they want us digging around in each others trailers, trying to eject balls.

Perhaps the size envelope limitations are enough to ensure that we don't attempt that strategy. ... but I felt really good there for a while this morning thinking that my camera could detect a SUPER CELL in my trailer and toss it OUT as the timer reaches zero.

I found where it says that:

D. Contact with a tilted or tipped ROBOT outside the BUMPER ZONE (particularly by the
BUMPERS of the contacting ROBOT) will generally be considered incidental contact and
will not be penalized.
E. Contact outside of the BUMPER ZONE is not acceptable, and will result in a PENALTY.
The offending ROBOT may be disqualified from the MATCH if the offense is particularly
egregious or if it results in substantial damage to another ROBOT.
F. A ROBOT may not attach to and/or climb onto a ROBOT or TRAILER. Doing so will be
interpreted as an attempt to damage an opposing ROBOT, and will be penalized as
such.

Reaching into another trailer violates the out of bumper rule and might be considered attaching or climbing onto a trailer

[Tottanka]

ok, and what about blocking the 'entrance' to your own trailer?

[ExarKun666]

Originally Posted by Tottanka

ok, and what about blocking the 'entrance' to your own trailer?

That's prbly not allowed cause if you were to cover it, you would have to use your robot to do that, cause you can't build a cover on top of it, and if your robot does cover it, that violates the out of the bumper zone rule.

[ebarker]

Originally Posted by Tottanka

ok, and what about blocking the 'entrance' to your own trailer?

At all times the robot MUST fit in the 28" wide x 38" long x 60" high envelope

contact outside of the prescribed BUMPER zone is prohibited.

these two rules rule out

1) covering the trailer, or blocking the entrance
2) reaching into a trailer and removing rocks


It also means we cannot 'reach' over and drop rocks into a trailer
but we can 'shoot' them, similiar to the 2006 Aim-High game.


This game looks a lot like Aim-High, but with much shorter shooting distances.

[dtengineering]

Keep in mind that the robot must not exceed the 28"x38"x60" size restrictions at any time during the match.

It looks like the trailer tongue will stick out 4" from the trailer, and that the trailer is 28" edge to edge. So to meaningfully grasp a ball and extract it from your own trailer, you might need to reach out about 18-20" (I'm sure this can be optimized down a bit with careful design) That leaves about 20" (of the 38") to build your robot.

So, it could be done. It would probably be easier to descore them from one of your alliance member's trailers, however, as you wouldn't need to account for the trailer hitch.

I would place 50-50 odds on there being a "no descoring" rule clarification on the Q&A forum this week.... but only 50-50 as the GDC may feel that the size limitations are already sufficient disincentive for this strategy.

Jason

[dmlawrence]

According to drawing GE-09009a, the tongue will protrude about ten inches from the trailer.

[Abra Cadabra IV]

So basically, trailer + tongue will be equal to 38 inches total. It's possible (but difficult) to grab a ball out of your own trailer, provided they've rolled around to the back. It's pretty much impossible to block your trailer from being scored in.

[ExarKun666]

Originally Posted by Abra Cadabra IV

So basically, trailer + tongue will be equal to 38 inches total. It's possible (but difficult) to grab a ball out of your own trailer, provided they've rolled around to the back. It's pretty much impossible to block your trailer from being scored in.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the bumper zone is your robot's bumpers, and not the trailer's bumpers, but if there is something that I didn't catch, go ahead and correct me.

[railerobotics]

I think even if somebody figures out how to eject balls from a trailer, they will still be counted. I say this because, in the rules it says if a trailer tips over and the balls are lost, however many there were in there at that time, before it tipped, are still scored.

[Lodyev]

Sorry i'm on hold with Walmart trying to get more of those orbit balls haha...
little bored so i have to add...
What if you were to, say, direct a current of air at your trailer?

[Jeffy]

Originally Posted by ebarker

It also means we cannot 'reach' over and drop rocks into a trailer
but we can 'shoot' them, similiar to the 2006 Aim-High game.

I have to ask, So your saying that we can't "reach" (ie outside of size limits), Right?

Or are u saying a "dumptruck" type design, even provided it fits while "dumping" would be out because of possible contact?