Question on Lunacy!!!

[ExarKun666]

Originally Posted by Eric O

Neither of these rules applies to the situation described. If the robot stays within the 28x38x60 box, and is able to pull out a scoring object I see it as legal. G32, E says nothing about the trailer.

But it won't count as unscoring since tipping over the trailer does not unscore your points

[Eric O]

Originally Posted by ExarKun666

But it won't count as unscoring since tipping over the trailer does not unscore your points

I am not sure I understand your argument. Are you agreeing with me or not? I said it is legal, not illegal. As far as I can see there is no penalty for de-scoring, scores are counted at the end of the match (G07). Since the trailer is not tipped I am saying that this move is not penalized and is beneficial to the team from a points perspective.

[Electricia 1599]

Here is another question: I know you cant touch anything but the bumper on other robots but could you touch your robots connected trailer?

[Kevin Sevcik]

I'm with Eric O on this one. G32, E doesn't mention trailers, so contacting trailers outside the bumper zone should be legal, and you can extend outside your bumper zone as long as you stay in a 28x38x60 box. I think a descoring robot is legal, if difficult to pull off.

As to points still counting in a tipped trailer... Since any particular robot is carrying around points for the opposing team for the entire match, the reasoning here should be obvious. Without the rule preserving points in a tipped goal, you'd obviously end up with 6 robots "spontaneously" falling over at the end of every Finals match.... So I don't think it's a rule against clever descoring, I think it's a rule against massive and silly descoring.

[rachakate]

"G32, E says nothing about the trailer."

"E. Contact outside of the BUMPER ZONE is not acceptable, and will result in a PENALTY. The offending ROBOT may be disqualified from the MATCH if the offense is particularly egregious or if it results in substantial damage to another ROBOT. "

"BUMPER ZONE – the volume contained between two virtual horizontal planes, one inch above the floor and seven inches above the floor."

It is my understanding that the bumper zone is 2 virtual planes the entire length and width of the field. It is not just an area surrounding a robot. Therefore the bumper zone would apply to the trailer as well.

[Electricia 1599]

Does anyone know where you put the Accelerometer and the Yaw Rate Gyro?

[bobwrit]

Originally Posted by Electricia 1599

Does anyone know where you put the Accelerometer and the Yaw Rate Gyro?

You can place sensors anywhere on your robot as long as it keeps the robot within the legal dimensions.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by rachakate

"G32, E says nothing about the trailer."

"E. Contact outside of the BUMPER ZONE is not acceptable, and will result in a PENALTY. The offending ROBOT may be disqualified from the MATCH if the offense is particularly egregious or if it results in substantial damage to another ROBOT. "

"BUMPER ZONE – the volume contained between two virtual horizontal planes, one inch above the floor and seven inches above the floor."

It is my understanding that the bumper zone is 2 virtual planes the entire length and width of the field. It is not just an area surrounding a robot. Therefore the bumper zone would apply to the trailer as well.

The issue is whether section E is referring to solely ROBOT-ROBOT interaction, or if it includes ROBOT-TRAILER interaction. Since it discusses damage to another ROBOT, I'm assuming it only refers to ROBOT-ROBOT interaction. It's definitely a Q&A question, but I think there's a good case for ROBOT-TRAILER touching out of the bumper zone being legal.

[ExarKun666]

Originally Posted by Eric O

I am not sure I understand your argument. Are you agreeing with me or not? I said it is legal, not illegal. As far as I can see there is no penalty for de-scoring, scores are counted at the end of the match (G07). Since the trailer is not tipped I am saying that this move is not penalized and is beneficial to the team from a points perspective.

I disagree with you, srry , but I can't seem to reason why they would let you unscore if a trailer feel and all the balls fell out, and they still counted.

Originally Posted by Electricia 1599

Here is another question: I know you cant touch anything but the bumper on other robots but could you touch your robots connected trailer?

I believe you can touch your own trailer by definition of the bumper zone, which implies 2 planes, implying the robot and the trailer. However, whether actually getting a ball out of the trailer and getting rid of it is counted as unscoring is something that is prbly going to be debated until the Q&A forum comes out on the FIRST site, then we can get some real answers.

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

I'm with Eric O on this one. G32, E doesn't mention trailers, so contacting trailers outside the bumper zone should be legal, and you can extend outside your bumper zone as long as you stay in a 28x38x60 box. I think a descoring robot is legal, if difficult to pull off.

As to points still counting in a tipped trailer... Since any particular robot is carrying around points for the opposing team for the entire match, the reasoning here should be obvious. Without the rule preserving points in a tipped goal, you'd obviously end up with 6 robots "spontaneously" falling over at the end of every Finals match.... So I don't think it's a rule against clever descoring, I think it's a rule against massive and silly descoring.

I see what your point is....hmmmm well I think even, hypothetically, of they do let you unscore from your own trailer ONLY then building a bot to fit in the limits, even with an arm would be scary hard, be if it is allowed, shure give it a try.

[pfreivald]

I feel reasonably vindicated by Team Update #1. I thought it was pretty clear from the beginning that descoring would not be allowed -- I'm glad they clarified it so that teams are not expending effort on an invalid solution.

Patrick