<G14> Shenanigans?

[Greg Marra]

Originally Posted by ThunderKate

And there is no way to pay attention to the score. This years scoring will not be like last years where there was live scoring. So one must guess the score.

There appear to be handheld boxes for Refs to use to keep live scoring. If we presume there is no descoring, this will be completely accurate live scoring:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2242118...7611844292070/

[ExarKun666]

Originally Posted by ThunderKate

Can you clarify ExarKun666? I am wayyyy past confused on your post.

Yeah, okay so here's my thought: You have three teams on your alliance, let's say one team, the round before, got 2 times the score, and another, different team on the same alliance lost their last match. Before the match they group and decide whom goes to which position, like who goes to the fueling post, and who goes to the outpost. Let's say they decide the team who got the 2 times better the round b4 goes to the outpost, in that case they would have a blank cell taken away, and the team who lost let's say goes to the fueling post they, don't get any super cells taken away.

If that doesn't make sense could you clarify which part is hard to understand plz?

[Herodotus]

If I am reading this rule correctly, and judging from these posts I am, I think it's pretty ridiculous. It essentially encourages teams to not do their best. Shouldn't FIRST be all about encouraging every team to do their absolute best, regardless of outcome? I don't take a crushing defeat as... well... a crushing defeat. I take it as a chance to learn and grow.

Even more importantly, it punishes people that have NOTHING TO DO with the previous match.

[ThunderKate]

Thanks. But I highly doubt that they will keep track of score during matches. It would be nearly impossible.

[synth3tk]

I think that some teams may take advantage of this and not try their best, just to let the other alliance "score" for them. That is, if the previous interpretations of the rule are correct.

[ExarKun666]

Originally Posted by ThunderKate

Thanks. But I highly doubt that they will keep track of score during matches. It would be nearly impossible.

well i just thought since in the rules they say empty OR super cell, I just thought it could mean, it depended what position the team had.

[XXShadowXX]

This rule is kinda of dumb, is it like 'sposed to make us hold back and have mercy from completely destorying an opposing alliance, WHAT?

It not in the spirit of competion which is to do your best.
Not in the spirit of FIRST, which is to do your best
Not in the spirit of Enigneering which is to do things better, faster, and more effienent then other people.

[BethMo]

ThunderKate wrote

<G14> states that the rule is only valid during a "non-surrogate MATCH". We interpreted this as any elimination match.

I don't see a definition of this term in this year's rules. However, I vaguely remember a rule at some time in the past (or, possibly, from a different event altogether) where, if there weren't enough teams to fill out a match schedule, a team could be assigned to fill in extra rounds as a surrogate, to prevent playing matches with no opponent. These matches result in a score for the real player, but not for the surrogate.

Anyway, that's how I interpreted it.

[johnr]

So is this going to be based on some kind of ranking system? If yes, does this mean it wouldn't come into play until all teams played atleast one match?

[ThunderKate]

Originally Posted by BethMo

ThunderKate wrote



I don't see a definition of this term in this year's rules. However, I vaguely remember a rule at some time in the past (or, possibly, from a different event altogether) where, if there weren't enough teams to fill out a match schedule, a team could be assigned to fill in extra rounds as a surrogate, to prevent playing matches with no opponent. These matches result in a score for the real player, but not for the surrogate.

Anyway, that's how I interpreted it.

Yes that actually makes perfect sense. I just don't understand how <G14> would be fair during any matches other than the elims.

[footballguy]

I think it's a ridiculous rule, maybe they don't remember how 07 turned out when they tried to put everyone on equal playing fields, it gave good high number teams a huge advantage and others a huge disadvantage, and now this year they can penalize you based on doing good in a DIFFERENT match. I don't think it will be as important as '07 but it still has disaster written all over it, so remember teams do good but not to good. thats the spirit were lookin for.

[BethMo]

Aha, found it! Rule 9.3.2:

All teams will play the same number of qualifying matches except if the number of team appearances (number of teams multiplied by number of rounds) is not divisible by six; in that case the Field Management System will randomly select some teams to play an extra MATCH. For purposes of seeding calculations, those teams will be designated as SURROGATES for the extra MATCH. If teams play a MATCH as a SURROGATE, it will be indicated on the match schedule, and it will always be their third match.

[Barry Bonzack]

How about these shenanigans:

You have a dominate alliance of one dominate team and two decent teams vs a below average alliance.

In this match the dominate team and the decent teams are on the same alliance, but suppose one of the decent teams next match they must face the dominate team.

The dominate team does just that, dominates, but stays within the rule so the score is within 3x the opposing alliance's score. The team that must face the dominate team in the next match chooses to score enough to go over 3x, thus they even the playing field for the next match because neither alliance will have any super cells.


I think it never will happen, but worth a thought.

[XXShadowXX]

So it for qualification matches were all team are 'sposed to be in the match, or a normally qualifaction match.

<G14> (Lets not be awesome)

[ATannahill]

If a team plays match 2, 6, 10, and 14 and are a surrogate in match 10 just for an example. They win 58-22 in match 6, we don't care about match 2. Will they lose 1 ball in match 10 even though they are a surrogate? no matter the outcome of match 10 we know that they lose 1 ball in match 14.