Is this Legal?

[spectre107]

My team and I are running through a brainstorm of several ideas. One of which involves a "fork" like mechanism (like this { ) to trap the trailer. The mechanism doesn't grap the trailer, it just sort of holds it in place in front of the robot, containing it but not grabing it. I've read through the rules and can't find a "clear" answer. Given the deminsions of the robot to the trailer it's possible to construct, but it'll be hard. Any suggestions?

Also, rule <G29> reads, "with the exception of a robot towing a trailer, robots may not grap, grasp, grapple, or attach to any Arena structure."

It seems close to me but what do you all think?

[samir13k]

i would have to say that that ones going to be illegal. that is still grabbing onto the trailer.

Also, you would have to extend out of your maximum alowed dimensions to do so...or you will not have much room because the whole trailors footprint will have to be within your bots footprint.

[RyanN]

Also, from my understanding of the rules, you cannot go outside the bumper zone at all, or the 28" x 38" area at any time during the game.

[Team1710]

I also brainstormed something like this but I think it would be tough to work within the dimensions. As long as your within those and not touching it, I cannot see why that wouldn't be a problem.

[scirobotics]

quite sure that that is illigal due to the rule restrictions: nothing is allowed to leave the bumper zone and hold on to ANYTHING on the field. You have to hold on to your trailer with the hitch and nothing else i think

We had the same idea, and as far as I can tell it would be legal. The fork idea you are talking about will only guide the trailer and not "grab, grasp, grapple, or attach" to it. To stay within the bumper zone, however, the fork would have to be build into the chassis.

[Woody1458]

Illegal most likely, not because of the grasping. I think you are talking of more HERDING which I would argue totally legal by that rule, but by rule <R11> which saying the robot may not exceed the 28x38x60 volume limits even during play. no Playing configuration this year.

I understand everyone saying the are concerned with the size of the robot but I have provided a picture. I know it's in paint, and it's not to scale, but it is just a simple drawing of what the herding mechanism would have to look like.

[dtengineering]

Playing configurations are allowed, and are allowed to be greater than starting configurations. It is only that all playing configurations must remain within a 28x38x60 box.

So if you had a 28x28" robot base as your starting configuration, you could extend a mechanism 10" to the front of your robot... do whatever it had to do, retract it, then extend a mechanism 10" from the back of your robot.

THEN you could retract the mechanism at the back, and extend 10" to the left, etc. So long as the robot would, at all times, still fit in the sizing box.

R18D specifies that the trailer hitch must be located on the outer edge of the robot. I am unsure of what constitutes the "outer edge" of a "U" shaped robot.

I am sure GDC will clarifly this one on the Q&A very quickly if you ask.

Jason

[spectre107]

Originally Posted by tanmaker

I understand everyone saying the are concerned with the size of the robot but I have provided a picture. I know it's in paint, and it's not to scale, but it is just a simple drawing of what the herding mechanism would have to look like.

That's exactly what I was thinking, the volume restrictions are a bummer. The internal components would have to be rearraged to compensate for the change in CoG. But it might work. We are still considering other designs at this point.

[matt91]

what if you made an indent in the front of your robot that just happened to be in the shape of the trailer and you happen to crash into a trailer, and your robot just happened to keep the trailer steady, which just happened to be in front of your payload specialist??

[EricH]

<G32>F reads "A ROBOT may not attach to and/or climb onto a ROBOT or TRAILER. Doing so will be interpreted as an attempt to damage an opposing ROBOT, and will be penalized as such."

You get penalties.

Now for that pinning, remember the carpet.

[The Pre]

Originally Posted by tanmaker

I understand everyone saying the are concerned with the size of the robot but I have provided a picture. I know it's in paint, and it's not to scale, but it is just a simple drawing of what the herding mechanism would have to look like.

this is like what our team was thinking not only for herding the trailer but also balls to be pushed into the refuling port

[Elgin Clock]

Originally Posted by tanmaker

I understand everyone saying the are concerned with the size of the robot but I have provided a picture. I know it's in paint, and it's not to scale, but it is just a simple drawing of what the herding mechanism would have to look like.

A design like this was implemented in 2002 with much success for a team I can't remember the name of in 2002 (& I can't find a picture of said bot). Aye. lol
The rules were a bit different, as you were allowed to grab goals that year, but I agree with it being legal for this year as well.
You are only reacting against a surface, & not holding, or attaching if you built something like that.

Don't trust any of us though, only the official FIRST Q&A can answer your question definitively & officially.

[Ice Berg]

I'm not sure but I think you're talking about team 694's bot in 2002.