Defensive Strategies

[IndySam]

Originally Posted by R3V34L

Keep in mind that Balls removed from your trailer still count against you, and if there are more balls in the trailer, less can be put in. If you remove balls, you have to balance that with the possibility that you can now have more points scored against you.

I would personally say that the fact that a "moon rock" is put in at the beginning is a great advantage for the end of the match when there is less room for a "super cell".

please quote the rule where this came from?

[Tetraman]

Originally Posted by IndySam

please quote the rule where this came from?

It's not written in the rule book...but it is assumed though different rules.

<G07> B. If a TRAILER tips over, the points SCORED for that TRAILER at the time it was tipped will be preserved for the remainder of the MATCH.

[Stephen Kowski]

Originally Posted by Tetraman

It's not written in the rule book...but it is assumed though different rules.

<G07> B. If a TRAILER tips over, the points SCORED for that TRAILER at the time it was tipped will be preserved for the remainder of the MATCH.

....and if you don't tip it over and just remove balls?

[Racer26]

By the same token, whats to stop you from building a <28x38x60 robot, and building a descoring mech on it and descore from your alliance partners trailers?

[StevenB]

Originally Posted by 1075guy

I'm with IndySam, please quote such a rule. I have read the manual many times and seen no such indication that descoring by any means other than tipping is invalid.

Same here. The real question is whether this would be considered illegal "outside the bumper zone contact". That's where I see the GDC most likely to rule it out, particularly using <G32> parts E and F.
On the other hand:

Originally Posted by Game Manual, Section 6.1

The ARENA includes all elements of the game infrastructure that are required to play Lunacy: the CRATER, the ALLIANCE BASES, the OUTPOSTS, the FUELING STATIONS, the PAYLOAD TRAILERS...

Originally Posted by Game Manual, Section 7.3.5.2, <G29>

Arena Interaction –ROBOTS may push or react against any elements of the ARENA, provided there is no damage or disruption of the ARENA elements. With the exception of a ROBOT towing a TRAILER, ROBOTS may not grab, grasp, grapple, or attach to any ARENA structure.

[Racer26]

IMO, <G29> doesn't say anything about this. You're not grabbing, grasping, or grappling the TRAILER (an ARENA element), you're reaching into it, which is not mentioned, and therefore just fine.

EDIT: also, the game pieces themselves are not considered ARENA elements, and therefore grabbing, grasping, or grappling those is just fine.

[KingBK]

I really don't see a way to stop the other team from scoring on you. You could be able to put a lid on your trailer if you still fit in the dimensions but that is all your robot would really be able to do. I really think the best defense is going to be a good offense. Controlling the balls and making sure that you make them in the other alliances trailer before they make them in yours.

[BigWhiteYeti]

What if you just backed yourself into a corner of the arena and used your robot to block your goal? That could be useful end-game to prevent being supercelled by the other alliance.

[IndySam]

Originally Posted by BigWhiteYeti

What if you just backed yourself into a corner of the arena and used your robot to block your goal? That could be useful end-game to prevent being supercelled by the other alliance.

not a bad idea but there is no real corner.

[Petey]

Originally Posted by BigWhiteYeti

What if you just backed yourself into a corner of the arena and used your robot to block your goal? That could be useful end-game to prevent being supercelled by the other alliance.

Depends on how good the human players were. 1073 won a playoff match in 2004 when the human player threw a playground ball into the goal from clear across the field at the last second.

But I agree, this is not a bad endgame strategy if you have no other defensive options (i.e. no lid, etc).

e: you do have to keep in mind that there is a red payload specialist on the side of the field and vice versa...there is no location for the robot to be that is more than 20 feet away from a human player...

[Travis Hoffman]

Just like 2006, having an alliance smart enough to know when NOT to chuck balls onto the field, missing their targets and providing the opposition more "ammo" in a fruitless, aggravating display of dumb is one of the better defensive strategies you can employ. Yeah, it might look cool to the crowd, but strategically, it's lame.

Deny the opposing alliance as much scoring "ammo" as you can. Conserve your ammo until the opportune time to unload it for maximum gain, or there's so little time left, the opposing alliance cannot "steal" it.

[Petey]

Originally Posted by KingBK

You could be able to put a lid on your trailer if you still fit in the dimensions but that is all your robot would really be able to do.

What makes you say that?

[Nawaid Ladak]

Originally Posted by R3V34L

Keep in mind that Balls removed from your trailer still count against you, and if there are more balls in the trailer, less can be put in. If you remove balls, you have to balance that with the possibility that you can now have more points scored against you.

I would personally say that the fact that a "moon rock" is put in at the beginning is a great advantage for the end of the match when there is less room for a "super cell".

as of now, and i hope moving forward, that is inncorrect information, unless you can show a rule that spicificly states this situation

Originally Posted by Tetraman

It's not written in the rule book...but it is assumed though different rules.

<G07> B. If a TRAILER tips over, the points SCORED for that TRAILER at the time it was tipped will be preserved for the remainder of the MATCH.

your comparing apples to oranges. totally different situations.

[Bigflip2073]

I was thinking about this for a while


how about using air cannons to deflect cells?
How much would it take to actually have an effecton an incoming cell?
Most likely there wouldnt be enough pressure and volume for there to have an effect on an orbitball.


however i dont think it has been tried

[R3V34L]

Originally Posted by Nawaid Ladak

as of now, and i hope moving forward, that is inncorrect information, unless you can show a rule that spicificly states this situation



your comparing apples to oranges. totally different situations.

Apologies for the incorrect information, however if you are allowed to descore, then, I would assume descoring from allies is also allowed. If from yourself, then why not your teammates? This would a low a single robot on you team to be designated a "descorer" perhaps with a conveyor-hook settup to simply go up to allies and remove balls through the grates of their trailers. This seems to be against the spirit of the competition, leading to my previous point.

I still believe that it is not a good idea however, as I mentioned before, one moon rock in at the beginning means less room for a super cell to be tossed in during the last 20 seconds.