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Unread 05-01-2009, 10:57
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Re: Defensive Strategies

I really don't see a way to stop the other team from scoring on you. You could be able to put a lid on your trailer if you still fit in the dimensions but that is all your robot would really be able to do. I really think the best defense is going to be a good offense. Controlling the balls and making sure that you make them in the other alliances trailer before they make them in yours.
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Unread 05-01-2009, 13:30
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Re: Defensive Strategies

What if you just backed yourself into a corner of the arena and used your robot to block your goal? That could be useful end-game to prevent being supercelled by the other alliance.
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Unread 05-01-2009, 13:32
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Re: Defensive Strategies

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Originally Posted by BigWhiteYeti View Post
What if you just backed yourself into a corner of the arena and used your robot to block your goal? That could be useful end-game to prevent being supercelled by the other alliance.
not a bad idea but there is no real corner.
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Unread 05-01-2009, 14:07
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Re: Defensive Strategies

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Originally Posted by BigWhiteYeti View Post
What if you just backed yourself into a corner of the arena and used your robot to block your goal? That could be useful end-game to prevent being supercelled by the other alliance.
Depends on how good the human players were. 1073 won a playoff match in 2004 when the human player threw a playground ball into the goal from clear across the field at the last second.

But I agree, this is not a bad endgame strategy if you have no other defensive options (i.e. no lid, etc).

e: you do have to keep in mind that there is a red payload specialist on the side of the field and vice versa...there is no location for the robot to be that is more than 20 feet away from a human player...
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Last edited by Petey : 05-01-2009 at 14:11.
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Unread 05-01-2009, 14:37
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Re: Defensive Strategies

Just like 2006, having an alliance smart enough to know when NOT to chuck balls onto the field, missing their targets and providing the opposition more "ammo" in a fruitless, aggravating display of dumb is one of the better defensive strategies you can employ. Yeah, it might look cool to the crowd, but strategically, it's lame.

Deny the opposing alliance as much scoring "ammo" as you can. Conserve your ammo until the opportune time to unload it for maximum gain, or there's so little time left, the opposing alliance cannot "steal" it.
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  #21   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-01-2009, 15:29
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Re: Defensive Strategies

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1075guy View Post
IMO, <G29> doesn't say anything about this. You're not grabbing, grasping, or grappling the TRAILER (an ARENA element), you're reaching into it, which is not mentioned, and therefore just fine.
But as soon as you start restricting its motion from the inside, I'd call that some form of attaching to.


Realistically, I think this will end up in Q&A very quickly. I would expect that the answer would be something to the effect of "As long as no rules on contact outside the bumper zone are violated, it's fine."

Which then means that all one robot has to do to get you in trouble is tangle you up. If it's done enough, you have to modify your design.
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Unread 05-01-2009, 15:50
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Re: Defensive Strategies

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingBK View Post
You could be able to put a lid on your trailer if you still fit in the dimensions but that is all your robot would really be able to do.
What makes you say that?
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Unread 05-01-2009, 16:51
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Re: Defensive Strategies

Quote:
Originally Posted by R3V34L View Post
Keep in mind that Balls removed from your trailer still count against you, and if there are more balls in the trailer, less can be put in. If you remove balls, you have to balance that with the possibility that you can now have more points scored against you.

I would personally say that the fact that a "moon rock" is put in at the beginning is a great advantage for the end of the match when there is less room for a "super cell".
as of now, and i hope moving forward, that is inncorrect information, unless you can show a rule that spicificly states this situation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetraman View Post
It's not written in the rule book...but it is assumed though different rules.

<G07> B. If a TRAILER tips over, the points SCORED for that TRAILER at the time it was tipped will be preserved for the remainder of the MATCH.
your comparing apples to oranges. totally different situations.
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Unread 05-01-2009, 23:58
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Re: Defensive Strategies

I was thinking about this for a while


how about using air cannons to deflect cells?
How much would it take to actually have an effecton an incoming cell?
Most likely there wouldnt be enough pressure and volume for there to have an effect on an orbitball.


however i dont think it has been tried
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Unread 06-01-2009, 00:27
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Re: Defensive Strategies

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Originally Posted by Nawaid Ladak View Post
as of now, and i hope moving forward, that is inncorrect information, unless you can show a rule that spicificly states this situation



your comparing apples to oranges. totally different situations.
Apologies for the incorrect information, however if you are allowed to descore, then, I would assume descoring from allies is also allowed. If from yourself, then why not your teammates? This would a low a single robot on you team to be designated a "descorer" perhaps with a conveyor-hook settup to simply go up to allies and remove balls through the grates of their trailers. This seems to be against the spirit of the competition, leading to my previous point.

I still believe that it is not a good idea however, as I mentioned before, one moon rock in at the beginning means less room for a super cell to be tossed in during the last 20 seconds.
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Unread 06-01-2009, 00:51
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Re: Defensive Strategies

Quote:
SCORED: A GAME PIECE is SCORED when it is fully supported by the TRAILER or other GAME PIECES that have been SCORED.
Technically speaking, from this definition, you could make it so it was impossible to score without getting a cell stuck on one of the outer bars by placing some sort of blocking mechanism at the bottom of your trailer. Because any cells going into the trailer are going to hit the bottom, placing something there will mean that they are supported partially by the robot, and thus are not scored. In turn, any cells stacked on top of them wouldn't be counted, as they are being supported by something other than the trailer and scored cells.

That being said, the GDC seems to be severely limiting what the robot can do outside of its boundaries, and it seems to me that any plausible method of descoring or blocking will probably be made pretty explicitly illegal when the Q&A. It would make sense, considering that most of the ways of blocking and descoring would be reasonably quick and easy, and would mean that a trailer is essential closed to scoring, thus providing an immense advantage and a more boring game.
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Unread 06-01-2009, 01:11
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Re: Defensive Strategies

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Originally Posted by darkChozo View Post
That being said, the GDC seems to be severely limiting what the robot can do outside of its boundaries, and it seems to me that any plausible method of descoring or blocking will probably be made pretty explicitly illegal when the Q&A. It would make sense, considering that most of the ways of blocking and descoring would be reasonably quick and easy, and would mean that a trailer is essential closed to scoring, thus providing an immense advantage and a more boring game.
I'm not the most familiar person on the board with the rules, but if you can manage to touch only the balls, then I would think you can descore an ally's trailer. It seems logistically impossible/impractical to descore yourself, though I suppose if all your robot did was descore, you could sit in one place and constantly pick out moon rocks, while asking for the occasional push from an ally. I.E. Your robot was simply a 10'' block with an arm reaching to your trailer, no propulsion and nothing but the descoring device. I don't recall there being a rule saying you need to have the ability to move, and in some ways, cutting a alliance's scoring potential down to 2/3rds could be a significant advantage.
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Unread 06-01-2009, 01:26
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Re: Defensive Strategies

Quote:
Originally Posted by R3V34L View Post
I don't recall there being a rule saying you need to have the ability to move, and in some ways, cutting a alliance's scoring potential down to 2/3rds could be a significant advantage.
Definition of a robot includes a mobility system. This is the first year for such a requirement. (Seciton 8.2) Also, if you can't move (or won't), there is an opposing Payload Specialist right behind you.
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Unread 06-01-2009, 01:31
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Re: Defensive Strategies

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Originally Posted by EricH View Post
Definition of a robot includes a mobility system. This is the first year for such a requirement. (Seciton 8.2) Also, if you can't move (or won't), there is an opposing Payload Specialist right behind you.
Do you know if there is a speed requirement? If not, then I'm sure it would be possible for a rig letting you move around slowly without taking up much room, and the point of having a self-descorer would be to counteract the effect of that Payload Specialist, if I can make an arm that takes out my balls every second, I would think that I can take more balls out of my trailer, than any but the most spot on accurate payload specialist can put in my trailer. Also, they would be focused on me, meaning that the other team has effectively one Specialist for both of my Ally's. I'm not going to advocate this strategy however, just thinking that it is feasible, if you don't mind being a spoil sport.
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Unread 06-01-2009, 01:33
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Re: Defensive Strategies

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Originally Posted by R3V34L View Post
Do you know if there is a speed requirement? If not, then I'm sure it would be possible for a rig letting you move around slowly without taking up much room, and the point of having a self-descorer would be to counteract the effect of that Payload Specialist, if I can make an arm that takes out my balls every second, I would think that I can take more balls out of my trailer, than any but the most spot on accurate payload specialist can put in my trailer. Also, they would be focused on me, meaning that the other team has effectively one Specialist for both of my Ally's. I'm not going to advocate this strategy however, just thinking that it is feasible, if you don't mind being a spoil sport.
I didn't see a requirement for a given speed, or a requirement that it work (though I'm sure your partners will thank you for not being a relatively sitting duck).
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