Robot-to-robot and robot-to-trailer

[GaryVoshol]

There is so much speculation going on about this topic that it may be impossible to resolve anything. But here's my attempt.

The Trailer is not part of the robot. That's abundantly clear; if it were not so, everyone's robot would be out of size immediately when the trailer was hitched.

<G32> is titled "Robot-to-robot" interaction, but then the word Trailer appears in the first two sentences. Except for those two instances, the wording of this paragraph is the same as the 2008 rule <G37>. I'm not sure why the GDC even had to add Trailers here, because there are other rules about damaging field elements, e.g. <G30>.

The subpoints A through E do not address Trailers. F and G do, for climbing on, attaching to or intentionally tipping. However even here there must be some leeway, because your robot is attached to your trailer, so at least that must be allowed.

There is a significant difference in the contact outside the bumper zone rule from last year. Look at what was deleted:

Originally Posted by 2008 Rule <G37>c

c. Contact outside of the BUMPER ZONE is generally not acceptable, and will result in a PENALTY. The offending ROBOT may be disqualified from the MATCH if the offense is particularly egregious or if it results in substantial damage to another ROBOT. However, incidental contact outside of the BUMPER ZONE will not be penalized.

(Strike-through mine to illustrate what was removed) This makes 2009 rule <G32>E much more stringent.

Finally, it has to be decided whether a trailer even has a bumper zone. Just because a trailer has bumpers, that doesn't mean it has a zone. The field has bumpers too. If only robots have bumper zones, then <G32>E applies only to robot-to-robot contact.

[FourPenguins]

Given this year's non-expansion rules, it seems to me that it would be nigh impossible for most robots (while still fully vertical) to contact outside the bumper zone. The only exception of course would be robots with a drive base smaller than 28x38.

[Dan Richardson]

I might be slightly mistaken here but it seems like if contact outside the bumper zone with the trailers is not allowed it would mean teams using a dump truck style method to score the moon rocks and consistently made contact with the pipes of the trailer then it should result in a penalty?

I guess any method for delivering moon rocks that would possibly make contact could risk a penalty. I know one of the biggest reasons for examination of this rule is associated with Descoring, but I foresee it possibly effecting many SCORING methods as well. I anticipate clarification of this rule but my assumption would be that contact with the pipes would have to be lax or there may be a lot of penalties.

[Abra Cadabra IV]

Sounds like this would make a good Q&A question. The manual, as far as I can tell, isn't clear enough to answer this.

[Kevin Sevcik]

I can see some reason for including trailers in <G34>. They're somewhat massive objects under control of teams. As such, they could be used as weapons by nefarious teams. If an opponent has a descoring system sticking out of their bumper perimeter, and you whip your trailer around to impact it at high speed, then you should probably have a penalty coming. The GDC obviously wants to make something like this clear, but has failed to do so as of yet.

[Logan Williams]

Here's my question, and I'm a little confused about it.

If we had a dumping-type mechanism, that kept within the dimension boundaries, but occasionally made contact with one of the vertical bars on a trailer while dumping, would that be penalized?

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by Logan Williams

If we had a dumping-type mechanism, that kept within the dimension boundaries, but occasionally made contact with one of the vertical bars on a trailer while dumping, would that be penalized?

This is the wrong place to ask, since any opinions here are not official. Ask on the official FIRST Game Q&A site.

That being said, I can offer you my worthless opinion: Probably not.

Don

[feliks_rosenber]

Hello everyone,

As some have said before, it seems that the expansion rule prevents teams from employing de-scoring tactics. However, is there any rule clearly prohibiting removing previously scored game pieces?
After all, if what is left inside the trailer at the end of the match is what counts, then there is probably a reason for that rule. I don't see scored game pieces bouncing off the trailer and out onto the crate unless they are somehow removed.

I'm hopelessly confused

[Petey]

Originally Posted by Logan Williams

Here's my question, and I'm a little confused about it.

If we had a dumping-type mechanism, that kept within the dimension boundaries, but occasionally made contact with one of the vertical bars on a trailer while dumping, would that be penalized?

Ask in QA, but I'm gonna have to agree and say that there is no way that FIRST can intend for this to be a penalty.

My reading of the rules:

E. Contact outside of the BUMPER ZONE is not acceptable, and will result in a PENALTY. The offending ROBOT may be disqualified from the MATCH if the offense is particularly egregious or if it results in substantial damage to another ROBOT.

F. A ROBOT may not attach to and/or climb onto a ROBOT or TRAILER. Doing so will be interpreted as an attempt to damage an opposing ROBOT, and will be penalized as such.

Says that you can't hit a robot outside of the bumper zone or climb onto a trailer. But hitting bars while dumping, or incidentally touching the bars with an arm or lid function, should not be a problem.

[Jon236]

Originally Posted by feliks_rosenber

Hello everyone,


I'm hopelessly confused

Feliks,

Remember that the object of the exercise, as Woody says, is to make your brain hurt. That's why they DIDn't say anything about whether you can descore, while they DID say your robot had to stay in it's 28x38x60 envelope.

As everyone else has said, wait for the Q&A!

שלום

[Liz Smith]

One additional detail, which may shed a bit of light on the original question in this thread is this year's definition of BUMPER ZONE found in the first few pages of the Robot section (8)

"BUMPER ZONE- the volume contained between two virtual horizontal planes, one inch above the floor and seven inches above the floor."

With that definition contact outside the BUMPER ZONE would be anything below 1 inch or above 7 inches...

[GaryVoshol]

Well this topic is moot, with Team Update 1 out. I'll close it.