Blocking your own trailer

[web_master_dpep]

Originally Posted by JHSmentor

in response to the robot width being the 38" direction - I believe this is totally legal but it does state in the rules that the trailer will be attached to the SHORT side of the robot. so, if the robot design had the wide sides in the front and back, then the trailer would be sliding along beside it on the left or right.

I didnt see this in the rules. You may have made a mistake while reading
<R18>BThe Trailer Hitch must be rigidly attached to a fixed location on the ROBOT, with the long dimension of the Trailer Hitch horizontal and the opening of the C-channel facing away from the ROBOT. The horizontal center line of the Trailer Hitch must be 2-13/16 inches above the floor.

[chris04891]

My team while brainstorming thought of a blower such as a low amp leaf blower that could b angled to blow moon rocks away from the trailer. we decided against one because it would use like all of our battery second because its prolly gunna b outlawed

[GreerD]

Originally Posted by JHSmentor

in response to the robot width being the 38" direction - I believe this is totally legal but it does state in the rules that the trailer will be attached to the SHORT side of the robot. so, if the robot design had the wide sides in the front and back, then the trailer would be sliding along beside it on the left or right.

Could you quote this rule? Thanks.

[keen101]

Originally Posted by chris04891

My team while brainstorming thought of a blower such as a low amp leaf blower that could b angled to blow moon rocks away from the trailer. we decided against one because it would use like all of our battery second because its prolly gunna b outlawed

I don't think it will be outlawed, but it probably would consume a lot of battery power.

(Originally Posted by JHSmentor) in response to the robot width being the 38" direction - I believe this is totally legal but it does state in the rules that the trailer will be attached to the SHORT side of the robot. so, if the robot design had the wide sides in the front and back, then the trailer would be sliding along beside it on the left or right.

I don't think this is a rule at all. If it is i know i missed it.

[JHSmentor]

Originally Posted by JHSmentor

in response to the robot width being the 38" direction - I believe this is totally legal but it does state in the rules that the trailer will be attached to the SHORT side of the robot. so, if the robot design had the wide sides in the front and back, then the trailer would be sliding along beside it on the left or right.

Okay - I am trying to find the actual location where we (both my wife and I) read this - but I cannot find it!!!!!

I am so sorry if this is not the case. I was not intentionally trying to mess everyone up. We actually were thinking of rotating our robot so the front was wide but after reading this "rule" decided that was not an option.

we have a printed version of the rules that we printed out on the first day - could this have changed on the web site since? I would think that any change would have to be sent out as a notification to all teams.

[Alex Dinsmoor]

Originally Posted by JHSmentor

Okay - I am trying to find the actual location where we (both my wife and I) read this - but I cannot find it!!!!!

I am so sorry if this is not the case. I was not intentionally trying to mess everyone up. We actually were thinking of rotating our robot so the front was wide but after reading this "rule" decided that was not an option.

we have a printed version of the rules that we printed out on the first day - could this have changed on the web site since? I would think that any change would have to be sent out as a notification to all teams.

Well here is the complete section about trailer location on the robot:

<R18>
To attach the TRAILER to the ROBOT, TEAMS must use a Trailer Hitch constructed from materials provided in the 2009 Kit Of Parts. Details on the construction of the Trailer Hitch are provided in Drawing “GE-09040.”
A.
The Trailer Hitch is composed of the “Trailer Spacer” (Part 2 in the referenced drawing) and the “Trailer Mount Bar” (Part 3 in the referenced drawing). The Trailer Spacer is a 7-inch length of square steel tubing provided in the Kit Of Parts. The Trailer Mount Bar is a 7-inch length of robot chassis material (C-channel) to be cut from the provided KOP chassis material.
B.
The Trailer Hitch must be rigidly attached to a fixed location on the ROBOT, with the long dimension of the Trailer Hitch horizontal and the opening of the C-channel facing away from the ROBOT. The horizontal center line of the Trailer Hitch must be 2-13/16 inches above the floor.
C.
The Trailer Hitch must be positioned so that the TRAILER may be locked in place with a standard 1/4– inch diameter hitch pin (McMaster-Carr part number 98416A009). During a competition MATCH, this hitch pin will be provided with the TRAILER as part of the ARENA equipment. See Figure 8-5.
D.
The Trailer Hitch must be located on an outer edge of the ROBOT structure such that it may easily connect with the tongue of the TRAILER (attached to the TRAILER).
E.
The Trailer Hitch must be placed such that, as the TRAILER swings from side to side, the first contact between the TRAILER and ROBOT is BUMPER-to-BUMPER and not TRAILER-tongue-to-BUMPER (to prevent placing excessive stress upon, and possibly damaging, the TRAILER tongue). See Figure 8-6.
F.
The color of the TRAILER (red or blue) will be used to indicate the ALLIANCE of the ROBOT.

No where does it state that you can't place it on the long side of the robot, so it seams it's ok!

[Killraine]

Originally Posted by Travis Hoffman

4. If #2 is permissible, are teams allowed to employ descoring mechanisms to extract game pieces from trailers? [My "gut feeling" says this will not be allowed.]

#4 is definitely illegal, I'm looking for the rule now, but I remember reading that balls can not be taken from the trailers after being scored.

[384 huband44]

Originally Posted by Chris Fultz

Actually,

<R16>
Once the MATCH has started, the ROBOT may assume a PLAYING CONFIGURATION that is different from the STARTING CONFIGURATION. The ROBOT must be designed such that the PLAYING CONFIGURATION of the ROBOT shall not exceed the dimensions specified in Rule <R11>.

This would imply that if your total robot stayed within the maximum size, then you could have some extension (that might be a cover).

(note - not saying it is legal or in the spirit, just listing what the rule says)

so if we keep it at the limit of the box then we can extend an arm backwards to decrease the chance of a ball making it into the trailer?

[Jinx]

Seeing that teams are brainstorming an air defense, how effective do you think that would be?

My team thinks its a rather great idea and so do I but the mathematics seems to worry me... I may be thinking far to ahead but its better early than never...

[Josh Drake]

Two words: Bill's Blog

[2560DawgDM]

if anyone can help me, i really need to knwo trailer dimensions. my team is trying to make one to recruit payload specialists.

[bduddy]

Originally Posted by Killraine

#4 is definitely illegal, I'm looking for the rule now, but I remember reading that balls can not be taken from the trailers after being scored.

I think you may be mistaking it with the rule where if a trailer tips over, all balls in it still score. I don't think there is, as of yet, any rule that says what you are saying.

EDIT: Just noticed this-http://frcdirector.blogspot.com - which states that "the Game Design Committee’s intention" is that de-scoring, goaltending, and under-robot fans are not allowed. So I wouldn't make plans to use any of them, but it is still my opinion that they are technically legal. Until today's Team Update, that us...

[Jinx]

What if the fans were placed near the top? Would that violate any rules?

[tjwoodin]

Well what you could do is create a robot that is really small, then when you create the cover your robot will not go outside the limits since your robot is already tiny to begin with. Also one rule states that you need all balls able to be taken out of your trailer at the end of the match without powering your robot back up so if you were to make something, you would need to make it retractable at the end of the match.

[jstn.mrrtt]

im going to quote bills blog on this one:

"Good Morning Teams,

I want to clarify the Game Design Committee’s intention on a few matters to save you time and resources:
1) De-scoring is not permitted (ie. You may not remove game pieces from a trailer)
2) Goal tending is not permitted (ie. You may not block access to a trailer)
3) Don’t spend time attempting to develop a vacuum car system like Jim Hall’s sucker Chaparral car. Even a slight suction over the base of the robot will damage the field surface and you don’t want to do that (See the 2009 FIRST Robotics Competition Manual section 7 rules G-29 & G-30)"

which in essence says NO blocking the trailer, and that it will probably be specified directly in a team update.