strange rules from FIRST

[archiver]

Posted by nick237 at 2/9/2001 12:22 AM EST


Engineer on team #237, sie h2o bots, from Watertown high school ct and sieman co.



Team 237 as most of you know has the H.E.R.O. Booth that tries to get any extra parts to teams in need of anything they are short or missing.
Update #6 Q#164 made me laugh. It said a team cant use parts from last years kit even if they are missing from this year and are identical to last years part, they have to be purchased from SPI.
It then goes on to say that teams can give parts to other teams as a gracious professionalism if they are not manufactured by a team. Motors,gears,sprockets and lead screws as an example.
So if I understand what F.I.R.S.T. is saying is that a team that needs a lead screw from me today that was short in their kit, they can use the one we send them from a donated gift, even if they have one identical from last year? but they cant use their own.
You have to wonder why F.I.R.S.T. is pushing SPI and its very expensive and limited selection so hard and are they getting anything for their "trouble".
SPI is creating a lot of agony this year and if we "HAVE TO" use them then some slack should be cut on the strict rules that F.I.R.S.T. makes use live with.
Telling it like it is.
Whats your thoughts.
nick237

[archiver]

Posted by Joe Johnson at 2/9/2001 9:07 AM EST


Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.


In Reply to: strange rules from FIRST
Posted by nick237 on 2/9/2001 12:22 AM EST:



Paradox after paradox.

The rules this year are silly in many respects.

I think FIRST would be better served if they just said, "Hey, SPI is a big deal sponsor. They helped us out when nobody else would. They donate XXX dollars to the cause. Included in that XXX they expect to recover YYY (YYY

[archiver]

Posted by Jim Meyer at 2/9/2001 9:45 AM EST


Engineer on team #67, HOT Team, from Huron Valley Schools and GM Milford Proving Ground.


In Reply to: I'm with you on this one Nick.
Posted by Joe Johnson on 2/9/2001 9:07 AM EST:



Joe J. is right on the money once again.

[archiver]

Posted by Anton Abaya at 2/9/2001 10:45 AM EST


Coach on team #419, Rambots, from UMass Boston / BC High and NONE AT THE MOMENT! .


In Reply to: Behind you 100%..EOM
Posted by Jim Meyer on 2/9/2001 9:45 AM EST:



: Joe J. is right on the money once again.

it was rather obvious to me what first was doing when they limited us to spi.

so we know spi is limited and that might be one of FIRSTs intentions so that all teams have a limited selection. but in the case of the many teams with big machine shops, they can just make their own stuff from their machine shop.

Now many rookie teams have barely a machine shop (let alone engineers) and are then limited to SPI's small catalog. So I question and wonder how this rule would have aided in making a fair playing field?

If first was so concerned with rookies (and they should) then, limiting rookies to SPI makes it more painful to build a bot....especially when they cant fabricate the idea they wish to build.

Frankly, I feel that half of the six weeks is spent looking through the catalog because making a part at the machine shop was always limited in time.

So basically the rookies painfully sort through such a limited catalog, and the veterans just make their own stuff from scratch. I miss last year's freedom, it was easier then when we were rookies than it is this year, our 2nd year, in which we're actually struggling to make a simpler robot.

-anton
team leader
rambots, #419

[archiver]

Posted by Bill Beatty at 2/9/2001 10:45 AM EST


Other on team #71, Team Hammond, from Team Hammond.


In Reply to: Behind you 100%..EOM
Posted by Jim Meyer on 2/9/2001 9:45 AM EST:



I have no problem with a must buy from SPI rule. After all, these guys donate tons of money and services to the Competition. However, what difference does it make WHEN we buy the parts from SPI? SPI gets overloaded for a few weeks and I think they would welcome a spreading out of some of the orders. I agree that you should not be allowed to reuse parts from previous years robots, but a new, unused purchased part from SPI should not need to be wasted.

I also enjoy the challenge of design with limited material and I believe that it helps us smaller companies with limited technical resources.

My two.

Mr. Bill

[archiver]

Posted by Erin at 2/9/2001 9:26 AM EST


Other on team #65, Huskie Brigade, from Pontiac Northern High School and GM Powertrain.


In Reply to: strange rules from FIRST
Posted by nick237 on 2/9/2001 12:22 AM EST:



It is my position that this rule is set with intention to rake in the SPI profits. There are really no questions about it- if it wasn't intended to do that, then we would be able to manufacture parts and give them away as well as use bits and pieces from the year before. This is just like taking from poor and giving to the rich- in Florida when the lower-income teams are needing special expensive parts and aren't able to get them due to "the rule" and lack of $$, what is going to happen? They are going to get jipped because they have lower funding. I know that rule has to be making it difficult for so many people... but hey... what can we do? We live and we die by the rulebook...
-Erin

[archiver]

Posted by Patrick Dingle at 2/9/2001 8:33 PM EST


Other on team #639, Red B^2, from Ithaca High School and Cornell University.


In Reply to: strange rules from FIRST
Posted by nick237 on 2/9/2001 12:22 AM EST:



While I understand your point, FIRST makes these rules for a reason. Rookie teams, for example, do not have "last years kit." That is one major reason FIRST makes a rule. Meanwhile, it is just as easy for a rookie team to get a part from another team as it is for a vetaran team to do so.

Although there may be some cases where the rules seem awkward, I applaud FIRST on their careful consideration when making the rules. This consideration puts all teams -- rookie or veteran -- in the same boat.

Patrick

: Team 237 as most of you know has the H.E.R.O. Booth that tries to get any extra parts to teams in need of anything they are short or missing.
: Update #6 Q#164 made me laugh. It said a team cant use parts from last years kit even if they are missing from this year and are identical to last years part, they have to be purchased from SPI.
: It then goes on to say that teams can give parts to other teams as a gracious professionalism if they are not manufactured by a team. Motors,gears,sprockets and lead screws as an example.
: So if I understand what F.I.R.S.T. is saying is that a team that needs a lead screw from me today that was short in their kit, they can use the one we send them from a donated gift, even if they have one identical from last year? but they cant use their own.
: You have to wonder why F.I.R.S.T. is pushing SPI and its very expensive and limited selection so hard and are they getting anything for their "trouble".
: SPI is creating a lot of agony this year and if we "HAVE TO" use them then some slack should be cut on the strict rules that F.I.R.S.T. makes use live with.
: Telling it like it is.
: Whats your thoughts.
: nick237

[archiver]

Posted by Jessica Boucher at 2/9/2001 8:41 PM EST


Student on team #237, Sie-H2O-Bots, from Watertown High School and Eastern Awning Systems & The Siemon Company.


In Reply to: strange rules from FIRST
Posted by nick237 on 2/9/2001 12:22 AM EST:



....give us a break somehow?

Maybe if they really wanted to be nice they could buy back the parts we don't use, thus, if identical to a part from the next year, can be re-used, thus widening the in-stock availability.

Basically, if a team buys part A and part B, if they use Part A and not B, SPI could buy part B back later in the season to use next year (if that part is available...maybe a list could come out of which ones they would buy back?).

Or am I just being optimistic/idealistic?

-Jessica B, #237