No-show teams and trailers

[Richard Wallace]

Back-in-the-day (before the alliance era) FIRST provided a Placebo robot to fill no-show slots. The Placebo had no scoring capability, and fairly limited mobility. One such Placebo was actually a hovercraft, IIRC. I don't recall if there were others.

Perhaps FIRST should provide non-functional Placebo robots to stand in for no-shows in Lunacy. Placebos could be built using the AM C-Base chassis with no drivetrain, fitted with standard bumpers and trailer hitch, and ballasted to the maximum inspection weight. Trailers assigned to no-show teams would be hitched to Placebos instead.

Alternately, perhaps no-shows should simply be prohibited. Put another way, teams might be required to place a robot on the field and hitch it to a trailer, whether they think it can be competitive or not. A non-functional robot would behave much like the Placebo described above, and would save FIRST the cost of deploying and maintaining several for each event.

[Chris Fultz]

Originally Posted by Richard

Alternately, perhaps no-shows should simply be prohibited. Put another way, teams might be required to place a robot on the field and hitch it to a trailer, whether they think it can be competitive or not.

Except this would then remove the robot and 4 members of the team from the pit and the team would lose 20 - 30 minutes of build / rebuild time, possibly causing them to have a non-functioning robot for another, later match.

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by Chris Fultz

Except this would then remove the robot and 4 members of the team from the pit and the team would lose 20 - 30 minutes of build / rebuild time, possibly causing them to have a non-functioning robot for another, later match.

Fair comment, Chris. Time to build, improve, and/or repair robots is a precious resource.

How would you interpret <S04> in the case of no-shows?

Originally Posted by 2009 FRC Game Manual, Section 7

<S04> Permitted ROBOTS - Any ROBOT used during a MATCH must be in compliance with all Robot Rules (as defined in Chapter 8). Any ROBOT in violation of a Robot Rule will automatically be assigned a PENALTY and may receive a Yellow Card, depending on the severity of the infraction.

Should a no-show team's alliance partners be excused from the penalty required by this rule if the team says "our robot isn't ready so we won't compete"?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Richard

Fair comment, Chris. Time to build, improve, and/or repair robots is a precious resource.

How would you interpret <S04> in the case of no-shows?Should a no-show team's alliance partners be excused from the penalty required by this rule if the team says "our robot isn't ready so we won't compete"?

Remember that it's kind of hard to violate a rule if you aren't there...

I expect that once asked, this will show up in an Update on Friday.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by Richard

How would you interpret <S04> in the case of no-shows?Should a no-show team's alliance partners be excused from the penalty required by this rule if the team says "our robot isn't ready so we won't compete"?

Originally Posted by EricH

Remember that it's kind of hard to violate a rule if you aren't there...

<S04> starts, "Any robot used during a match ..." If it's not used, there's no penalty under <S04>.

[Nuttyman54]

Originally Posted by Richard

Back-in-the-day (before the alliance era) FIRST provided a Placebo robot to fill no-show slots. The Placebo had no scoring capability, and fairly limited mobility. One such Placebo was actually a hovercraft, IIRC. I don't recall if there were others.

Perhaps FIRST should provide non-functional Placebo robots to stand in for no-shows in Lunacy. Placebos could be built using the AM C-Base chassis with no drivetrain, fitted with standard bumpers and trailer hitch, and ballasted to the maximum inspection weight. Trailers assigned to no-show teams would be hitched to Placebos instead.

I thought of this too, but it actually isn't a good idea. The former placebo was not allowed to affect the score of the match at all, and in this game it has to, by definition of the fact that it moves and therefore moves the goal. In a game where moving is key, a team with a robot that can't move or drive very well is then better off saying their robot is "broken" and having the placebo play instead.

[IKE]

I really like the idea of just a kit frame with wheels, bumper, and a hitch. The weight value I see as negoitiable, but I really like the chassis idea.

I think we will have an extra kit frame this year. If FIRST can provide some wheels, I know we could donate a stationary bot.

[Mike Starke]

One thing that I do see, is that if FIRST did send a trailer out by itself, it's starting position is right in front of an opposing teams PS. As an insult to injury, that alliance could stock up on moon rocks in that PS position and at the start of the match have an easy shot to score points on the robotless trailer. I am intrigued to find out the ruling.

[klanicam]

Originally Posted by Mike Starke

One thing that I do see, is that if FIRST did send a trailer out by itself, it's starting position is right in front of an opposing teams PS. As an insult to injury, that alliance could stock up on moon rocks in that PS position and at the start of the match have an easy shot to score points on the robotless trailer. I am intrigued to find out the ruling.

I was thinking the same thing. However, if the red alliance had a dead trailer in front of the blue's fueling station, wouldn't that prevent the blue alliance from herding moon rocks to that player?

I can see robots trying to move the trailer out of the way, but I can see that as being hazardous to the field.

If they would force the team to an inoperable robot on the field, that could be even harder to remove from the fueling station.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

If a team doesn't show up, I'd like to see a caster (made from a kit wheel) attached to the tongue of the trailer with no robot, so that it can be pushed around.

This would change the dynamics of the game when a team could not be there.

[IKE]

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w..._150886_150886

Northern tool has a swivel trailer jack stand for $17.

Says it has a 750 pound capacity which should be enough for our trailer.

Seriously who has ever heard of a good trailer without a tongue jack?

[JesseK]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

If a team doesn't show up, I'd like to see a caster (made from a kit wheel) attached to the tongue of the trailer with no robot, so that it can be pushed around.

This would change the dynamics of the game when a team could not be there.

Interesting concept.

Since the trailer hitches are supposed to be 7" wide I wonder if we could hook up 2 trailers to 1 robot in such a scenario. Even if it reduces a robot's mobility twice as much as 1 trailer does, it's better than just leaving the thing sitting around as an easy target.

[cardinalman86]

Originally Posted by JesseK

Since the trailer hitches are supposed to be 7" wide I wonder if we could hook up 2 trailers to 1 robot in such a scenario. Even if it reduces a robot's mobility twice as much as 1 trailer does, it's better than just leaving the thing sitting around as an easy target.

Haha! Would you even be able to drive like this!?! It would be really awesome to see, but i don't know if the robot could get enough grip on the regolith to pull both of the trailers at the same time and still get enough speed not to get completely tossed around... it might be something to try.

Would you also fit within the LAUNCHING PAD?

[DMetalKong]

Originally Posted by Mike Starke

One thing that I do see, is that if FIRST did send a trailer out by itself, it's starting position is right in front of an opposing teams PS. As an insult to injury, that alliance could stock up on moon rocks in that PS position and at the start of the match have an easy shot to score points on the robotless trailer. I am intrigued to find out the ruling.

I doubt you will see teams try and take too much advantage of this due to G14.

[JimWright949]

Originally Posted by IKE

I really like the idea of just a kit frame with wheels, bumper, and a hitch. The weight value I see as negoitiable, but I really like the chassis idea.

Driven by randomly choosen adult mentors (who are not from any team in the match)! This would give me a chance to finally drive one of these things in a real match.

-Jim