**FIRST EMAIL**/Game Pieces Available

[Mike Soukup]

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

Well, remember this isn't FIRST's fault entirely. They did not know of Wal Mart's intentions.

Really? When you're going to cause 2000 teams to want to buy 10-20 or more balls each, you'd better be sure that the only supplier of these balls is actually going to keep supplying them and will have a large enough quantity. As cabbagekid2 said, FIRST should have told the manufacturer and supplier what was going to happen. The small chance of potential damage caused by a leak is worth the huge pain that teams are facing now. How is a team supposed to design, build, and test a robot capable of holding 20 balls if they only have 4?

This is a pretty large 'oops' by FIRST.

[Katie_UPS]

Originally Posted by Mike Soukup

Really? When you're going to cause 2000 teams to want to buy 10-20 or more balls each, you'd better be sure that the only supplier of these balls is actually going to keep supplying them and will have a large enough quantity. As cabbagekid2 said, FIRST should have told the manufacturer and supplier what was going to happen. The small chance of potential damage caused by a leak is worth the huge pain that teams are facing now. How is a team supposed to design, build, and test a robot capable of holding 20 balls if they only have 4?

This is a pretty large 'oops' by FIRST.

Originally Posted by Kyle

Its great they are selling the balls now, but only 3?! I don't thing that anyone can properly build and design with only 3 of any game piece. But its better then nothing..

Originally Posted by cabbagekid2

They didn't know of Walmrt's intentions, but you'd think that...FIRST SHOULD BE THE ONE TO LET Walmart know of THEIR intentions to use a ball which is distributed soley by Walmart. Or even check with the manufactuer to see the status of the product.

*sigh* sorry, had to rant

You know, last year's game peice was pretty much unobtainable last year, and I think having one was enough. For '07, having more than two was plenty. As long as you can do a basic test, you shouldn't complain.

As I've heard in the other threads, the orbit balls were on clearance for months. Which means BLIP Toys has prolly stopped making them for even longer. Which means FIRST would've have to give a warning about a year in advanced to prepare the two suppliers.

[chaoticprout]

Originally Posted by Katie_UPS

You know, last year's game peice was pretty much unobtainable last year, and I think having one was enough. For '07, having more than two was plenty. As long as you can do a basic test, you shouldn't complain.

As I've heard in the other threads, the orbit balls were on clearance for months. Which means BLIP Toys has prolly stopped making them for even longer. Which means FIRST would've have to give a warning about a year in advanced to prepare the two suppliers.

There's a vast difference between a 40" game piece that you can only use one of at a time (with 4 on the field) vs. smaller balls that you need to test containers and feeding mechanisms with (with 120+ on the field).

Not even close to the same.

[Bharat Nain]

Originally Posted by Mike Soukup

Really? When you're going to cause 2000 teams to want to buy 10-20 or more balls each, you'd better be sure that the only supplier of these balls is actually going to keep supplying them and will have a large enough quantity. As cabbagekid2 said, FIRST should have told the manufacturer and supplier what was going to happen. The small chance of potential damage caused by a leak is worth the huge pain that teams are facing now. How is a team supposed to design, build, and test a robot capable of holding 20 balls if they only have 4?

This is a pretty large 'oops' by FIRST.

Originally Posted by Katie_UPS

You know, last year's game peice was pretty much unobtainable last year, and I think having one was enough. For '07, having more than two was plenty. As long as you can do a basic test, you shouldn't complain.

As I've heard in the other threads, the orbit balls were on clearance for months. Which means BLIP Toys has prolly stopped making them for even longer. Which means FIRST would've have to give a warning about a year in advanced to prepare the two suppliers.

Last year, there were only 4 balls on the field. This year, its a lot more. I feel a little bit let down that even the game object is this hard to obtain. Teams running scrimmages were a huge benefit to their region. It will be a lot harder. I am glad to see many teams adopting a can-do attitude and fighting against the worst accommodations this year. It is certainly something else.

[dlavery]

Originally Posted by Mike Soukup

Really? When you're going to cause 2000 teams to want to buy 10-20 or more balls each, you'd better be sure that the only supplier of these balls is actually going to keep supplying them and will have a large enough quantity. As cabbagekid2 said, FIRST should have told the manufacturer and supplier what was going to happen. The small chance of potential damage caused by a leak is worth the huge pain that teams are facing now. How is a team supposed to design, build, and test a robot capable of holding 20 balls if they only have 4?

This is a pretty large 'oops' by FIRST.

You are making a pretty big assumption that FIRST did not take reasonable steps to plan for team access to game pieces. Not to be an apologist for FIRST, but this one really was not their fault. The game piece was selected early last summer with the specific goal of making sure that they would be available through a ubiquitous outlet such as Wal-mart. Both the manufacturer and the outlet were consulted and informed of FIRST's intentions. Wal-mart indicated they could handle the expected distribution without disturbing their channels. All was considered well and good. But then one week before Christmas Wal-mart announced they were discontinuing sales of Orbit Balls, with no prior notice. That late in the process, two weeks before kick-off, there was no opportunity to negotiate an alternate distributor with the manufacturer or identify an alternate game piece. FIRST had planned to ensure that reasonable access to game pieces could be realized by those teams that wanted to obtain them. But they were caught at the last minute by forces beyond their control.

The current situation is one that, painful as it may be, we just have to deal with. In that regard, kudos go to Team 228 and their development of the GUS balls. They are an excellent solution to an unfortunate problem, and it is a wonderful move to share that solution with the entire FIRST community.

-dave



.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by dlavery

The current situation is one that, painful as it may be, we just have to deal with. In that regard, kudos go to Team 228 and their development of the GUS balls. They are an excellent solution to an unfortunate problem, and it is a wonderful move to share that solution with the entire FIRST community.

-dave



.

Dave, thanks for letting us know that we aren't the only ones surprised by the scarcity.

Out of curiosity, would it be possible, legally and otherwise, to share the links to the GUS ball whitepaper in an update to ensure that the news goes out to whoever isn't on CD? With, of course, the caveat that these are not the official game objects, though they are reasonable substitutes.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by dlavery

You are making a pretty big assumption that FIRST did not take reasonable steps to plan for team access to game pieces. Not to be an apologist for FIRST, but this one really was not their fault. The game piece was selected early last summer with the specific goal of making sure that they would be available through a ubiquitous outlet such as Wal-mart. Both the manufacturer and the outlet were consulted and informed of FIRST's intentions. Wal-mart indicated they could handle the expected distribution without disturbing their channels. All was considered well and good. But then one week before Christmas Wal-mart announced they were discontinuing sales of Orbit Balls, with no prior notice. That late in the process, two weeks before kick-off, there was no opportunity to negotiate an alternate distributor with the manufacturer or identify an alternate game piece. FIRST had planned to ensure that reasonable access to game pieces could be realized by those teams that wanted to obtain additional them. But they were caught at the last minute by forces beyond their control.

The current situation is one that, painful as it may be, we just have to deal with. In that regard, kudos go to Team 228 and their development of the GUS balls. They are an excellent solution to an unfortunate problem, and it is a wonderful move to share that solution with the entire FIRST community.

-dave



.

Thank you Dave, you have gave us insight into what happened that we didn't have before. I still believe that it will be hard for teams to properly design with limited amount of balls but what has been said here so far about all the teams that are winning about lack of balls there are twice as many that are just going to engineer ways around it is completely true. Once again, Thanks Dave for helping calm the situation down.
And wow last summer you had the game piece already picked out? Nice

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by dlavery

But then one week before Christmas Wal-mart announced they were discontinuing sales of Orbit Balls, with no prior notice. That late in the process, two weeks before kick-off, there was no opportunity to negotiate an alternate distributor with the manufacturer or identify an alternate game piece. FIRST had planned to ensure that reasonable access to game pieces could be realized by those teams that wanted to obtain them. But they were caught at the last minute by forces beyond their control.

Thanks for sharing, Dave. As big as FIRST is to us, we sometimes fail to realize that it really isn't a major economic force in the world. Corporations, outside of specialty shops like AndyMark, aren't going to make production and supply decisions based on 1600 potential customers.

I think it's good of FIRST to share a limited access to pieces that they will be taking out of their own game stock. Hopefully there won't be a plea in April, "Please bring your Orbit Balls with you to Atlanta!"

[jgannon]

Originally Posted by dlavery

FIRST had planned to ensure that reasonable access to game pieces could be realized by those teams that wanted to obtain them. But they were caught at the last minute by forces beyond their control.

Was the reasonable access meant to include teams outside of the United States? Rumor has it that Canadian stores never carried them in the first place, not that they disappeared at the last minute.

[dsmoker]

Just talked with logo logic, and it's after noon and the balls still aren't on the site. They said the site will be going live with the balls at 12:30.

[Elgin Clock]

Orbit Balls are up!
http://logoloc.com/first/index.html

[Tristan Lall]

For Canadian teams, you probably ought to check with Karen Rosenthal to see if you've been included in the bulk order destined for Canada. (You could also call Logo Loc to confirm if your team is on the list, but they're quite busy at the moment....)

Your other option is to order them online, and pay the UPS Express shipping charge of around $75 USD (that's from Manchester, NH to Toronto, ON); at least brokerage fees are included with UPS Express. They don't have any cheaper shipping options available.

[Michelle Celio]

For kicks and giggles I wanted to see how they planned on limiting teams to ordering just 1 set.

It may be wrong because I didn't actually complete a purchase. But I was able to add multiple sets and get to the payment point with out specifying a team.

Let's try and stay on the moral side and only order 1 set until FIRST allows teams to purchase more.

[JeffChan]

Originally Posted by Michelle Celio

For kicks and giggles I wanted to see how they planned on limiting teams to ordering just 1 set.

It may be wrong because I didn't actually complete a purchase. But I was able to add multiple sets and get to the payment point with out specifying a team.

Let's try and stay on the moral side and only order 1 set until FIRST allows teams to purchase more.

Yeah. I just realized that after I ordered a set (I follow teh rules)..

[Kims Robot]

Originally Posted by Michelle Celio

For kicks and giggles I wanted to see how they planned on limiting teams to ordering just 1 set.

It may be wrong because I didn't actually complete a purchase. But I was able to add multiple sets and get to the payment point with out specifying a team.

Let's try and stay on the moral side and only order 1 set until FIRST allows teams to purchase more.

That is really bizzare, I didnt think about it until after I ordered either, that they never asked for our team number or anything... I only put in for one set, although with their costs ($5.87 handling and $10.79 just to ship ground to upstate NY!!), I dont think I would WANT to buy more than 3 balls... we are just going to make the rest for our event. We might even make them in our team colors instead (red, black & white) just to have some fun with it!