Teamwork Strategy for Scoring

[Rick Wagner]

Originally Posted by thefro526

... What would be good though, would be if one robot pinned down an opposing robot and then their alliance member ran some kind of interference to protect the scoring robot from being score on by another robot.

Or another thing we may see is a robot pinning another robot and then scoring in it but then not moving until it's alliance partner gets to the robot to score on it. This would basically make it so that both robots don't have to track down their respective targets.

Something that will probably happen in a lot of matches is seeing two teams on the same alliance chase down the weakest robot on the other alliance. They could use the advantage of having two robots worth of traction to pin the opposing robot and then one robot leaves and continues moving but leave the other one there to score.

Regardless, good communication within an alliance will be key for victory. One of the discussions I've been having with prospective human players is that they'll be giving balls to other robots that aren't ours but on our alliance. Also the HP will have to make the decision of who to give the empty/super cells to and there 66% chance that it won't be their teams robot.

Some good ideas there.

[Redskins1666]

I really do prefer the dumping method over the rest because you have multiple chances of scoring rather than just that one shot.


I really dislike this years game, because of it's human player abilities. Where is the talent in your robot when a human is shooting the ball? I would like to see the ratio for robot to human scoring and see how much more the human will score. This is more of a athletic game with a moving robot.

[ScottOliveira]

I feel that using two robots to hold another in place is justifiable, especially with a good systematic approach. After a certain number of balls, the trailer will start to fill up and it will become too costly to try to score again on that opponent. So take 2 robots (Bots B1, B2) from the same alliance and have them pin an opponent(Bots R1) next to a payload specialist(PL1). The remaining bot(B3) runs interference/ replenishes cell supply.

After they dump balls in and give the specialist a chance to load up the trailer, they move to the next opponent robot(R2). B3 and B1 engage R2 in front of a different payload specialist(PL2), whose ball supply will not be depleted. B2 runs interference to keep R1 and R3 away.

Repeat process for R3.

Ideally this would occur in front of corner PL specialists, to increase the effectiveness of the third robot out running interference.

[Rick Wagner]

Originally Posted by ScottOliveira

I feel that using two robots to hold another in place is justifiable, especially with a good systematic approach. After a certain number of balls, the trailer will start to fill up and it will become too costly to try to score again on that opponent. So take 2 robots (Bots B1, B2) from the same alliance and have them pin an opponent(Bots R1) next to a payload specialist(PL1). The remaining bot(B3) runs interference/ replenishes cell supply.

After they dump balls in and give the specialist a chance to load up the trailer, they move to the next opponent robot(R2). B3 and B1 engage R2 in front of a different payload specialist(PL2), whose ball supply will not be depleted. B2 runs interference to keep R1 and R3 away.

Repeat process for R3.

Ideally this would occur in front of corner PL specialists, to increase the effectiveness of the third robot out running interference.

You got it. I think teamworking alliances will dominate this year.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by Rick Wagner

You got it. I think teamworking alliances will dominate this year.

This is a very general statement that is true every year. Last year, we had alliance plans down to which ball each team would get, which lane to score in, and who would play defense. If you do not work together before a match, it really shows on the field.

[MattB703]

Here is another thought;

It will be much easier to stop a robot for a few seconds somewhere on the field than it will be to push a robot into a position to be loaded by your payload specialist. This is a large part of why I have been an advocate for the "mass dump" scoring strategy. My thought is; 1. fill a robot with a quantity of balls. 2. chase an opponent's trailer till he runs into something or your partner "sets a pick". 3. dump your whole load while the opponent bot struggles to extricate itself. 4. go get more balls and repeat.

I'm excited to see how the game really plays out.

Matt B

[Rick Wagner]

Originally Posted by MattB703

Here is another thought;

It will be much easier to stop a robot for a few seconds somewhere on the field than it will be to push a robot into a position to be loaded by your payload specialist. This is a large part of why I have been an advocate for the "mass dump" scoring strategy. My thought is; 1. fill a robot with a quantity of balls. 2. chase an opponent's trailer till he runs into something or your partner "sets a pick". 3. dump your whole load while the opponent bot struggles to extricate itself. 4. go get more balls and repeat.

I'm excited to see how the game really plays out.

Matt B

I agree that a lot of points will be scored by the chase, bump, and dump strategy. The pursuit algorithm with matched robots on a limited field will always result in the chaser overtaking. The minimal turn radius at 10 ft. / sec with 0.06g acceleration is 8 feet. The real question is who wins in the contest of bump and dumpers versus pinners and PS shooters.

[nahstobor]

The good old basketball "corner trap" might play out well.

[FRC1672]

The idea of pinning a teams robot is somewhat effective. I want to see how plausible this idea was with the simulation that was shown at kickoff but thats yet to be released. I believed this strategy will be tested and finnally decided on in the week 1 regionals. We will be at Trenton so we we be one of the the first teams possibly employing this technique.

[lenny8]

Originally Posted by Redskins1666

I really do prefer the dumping method over the rest because you have multiple chances of scoring rather than just that one shot.


I really dislike this years game, because of it's human player abilities. Where is the talent in your robot when a human is shooting the ball? I would like to see the ratio for robot to human scoring and see how much more the human will score. This is more of a athletic game with a moving robot.

i think the human interaction wont be as great as you mite assume just because a. robots are moving b. im going to assume most of the balls will be on the field so the humans will not have many chances.

[Akash Rastogi]

Just pointing out what I see as the obvious, BUT, all I know is no matter what your strategy (and yes I've played out a CRAP load of strategies in my head) you will be compromising something, whether it is you getting scored on, or you having to not score on other robots.

Think about the best strategy you think will take place on the field, and then just think about the cons of it. Not the pros.

P.S. If you can come up with a strategy that you think has no compromises, PM or IM me and we'll talk about how wrong you are...

[Rick Wagner]

Regarding the vulnerability of robots pinning another while the PS scores in its trailer, that will be true in the first 100 seconds of the match, but in the final 20 seconds, it's more likely for super cells to be scored by PSs than by robots. A teamwork pinning strategy could be decisive in the case of an alliance having super cells to score.

[fuzzy1718]

assumeing that there will be super cells to throw. if by some chance you shut your opponets out the previous match you lose what? 3 super cells I think? Supercells will not be a huge thing this season, they will be the spoilers of 2007, rarely played

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

Just pointing out what I see as the obvious, BUT, all I know is no matter what your strategy (and yes I've played out a CRAP load of strategies in my head) you will be compromising something, whether it is you getting scored on, or you having to not score on other robots.

Think about the best strategy you think will take place on the field, and then just think about the cons of it. Not the pros.

P.S. If you can come up with a strategy that you think has no compromises, PM or IM me and we'll talk about how wrong you are...

Stogi, yes we are just talking about theoretical strategies based on assumed circumstances and robot capabilities but speaking here is very useful. You're right, no strategy is ever completely without flaw but what we're trying to do here is get feedback on prospective strategies. Shoot me an IM When you get a chance tho.

To get back on topic, A friend and I came to a realization this week. For most robots, including our own, it'll be extremely difficult to get and score a single isolated ball (Super Cell) in 20 seconds. So we figured out the best way for our team to score them:

We'd make sure that both of our Human Players on either end have at least one Super Cell engaged by the last 30 seconds of the match and that our robot has 5 or more balls ready to be scored. Then in the final 30 seconds we'd wait for a robot to go anywhere close to one of our human players on either end and try to pin them in front of the airlock with the help of one of our teammates. The instant those final 20 seconds come around our human player would then have to lob a single Super Cell over the wall into your opponents trailer which is incredibly easy. At this time we'd score any balls we have in our possession and so would our team mate. If timed correctly the robots would only have to be stationary for 5-10 seconds at the most but we'd have the opportunity to score 20 or more points.

Of course that strategy would have it's flaws but it might be worth looking into.

[Rick Wagner]

Originally Posted by thefro526

... We'd make sure that both of our Human Players on either end have at least one Super Cell engaged by the last 30 seconds of the match and that our robot has 5 or more balls ready to be scored. Then in the final 30 seconds we'd wait for a robot to go anywhere close to one of our human players on either end and try to pin them in front of the airlock with the help of one of our teammates. The instant those final 20 seconds come around our human player would then have to lob a single Super Cell over the wall into your opponents trailer which is incredibly easy. At this time we'd score any balls we have in our possession and so would our team mate. If timed correctly the robots would only have to be stationary for 5-10 seconds at the most but we'd have the opportunity to score 20 or more points. ...

That's exactly what I've been thinking for a winning alliance strategy. Our scouting team will be looking for empty cell runners (it will take the full 100 seconds available for one robot to deliver the four empty cells) as well as attack 'bots (shooters or dumpers). We have a shooter bot that can pick up moon rocks from the regolith and believe that the winning alliance will have two attack 'bots and one empty cell runner.