Go to Post For some people FRC is an introduction into STEM and just a way to open someones eyes to a world they might not know exist. To other it is a lifestyle that makes crossfit look casual. - IronicDeadBird [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Competition > Rules/Strategy
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2009, 19:54
GaryVoshol's Avatar
GaryVoshol GaryVoshol is offline
Cogito ergo arbitro
no team
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Royal Oak, MI
Posts: 5,757
GaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond repute
Bad news for Pink, MOE, ThunderChickens ... ?

http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=10930

Might not be able to use those traditional robot colors.

Quote:
With 1700 teams involved in the competition this year, we unfortunately could not find a color combination for the vision target that would not conflict with some percentage of the established teams. We would strongly recommend that you consider an alternate color scheme for your ROBOT. If your ROBOT has large areas that are the same color as the vision targets, it is likely that you will confuse the vision systems of both your opponents and alliance partners. If this is determined to be the case, this will be considered to be a violation of Rule <R02-C> (particularly if you are knowingly using the exact color as the vision targets), and the situation will have to be corrected before the ROBOT will be allowed back on the field.
__________________
(since 2004)
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2009, 21:17
qwertyuiop[]\'s Avatar
qwertyuiop[]\ qwertyuiop[]\ is offline
Drive Train/Manipulator Team Leader
AKA: Steven Harris
FRC #0623 (Cougar Robotics)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Oakton, VA
Posts: 140
qwertyuiop[]\ is a glorious beacon of lightqwertyuiop[]\ is a glorious beacon of lightqwertyuiop[]\ is a glorious beacon of lightqwertyuiop[]\ is a glorious beacon of lightqwertyuiop[]\ is a glorious beacon of lightqwertyuiop[]\ is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Bad news for Pink, MOE, ThunderChickens ... ?

same for our team but i have been pushing for a switch to school colors for over a year now so im taking the target coloring as a blessing.
__________________
"...i told you i wanted the left-handed screwdriver not the right-handed one..." always let the mentors get their morning coffee or else they start getting angry and making stuff up.

2005 NASA VCU Website Excellence Award, 2006 NASA VCU Website Excellence Award, 2006 Capital Clash, 2006 Delaware FVC Regional, 2007 Ramp Riot, 2007 Virginia FTC Regional, 2008 NASA VCU Regional, 2008 Battle of Baltimore, 2008 Virgina FTC Regional
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2009, 21:17
Richard Wallace's Avatar
Richard Wallace Richard Wallace is offline
I live for the details.
FRC #3620 (Average Joes)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Rookie Year: 1996
Location: Southwestern Michigan
Posts: 3,667
Richard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bad news for Pink, MOE, ThunderChickens ... ?

This Q&A response has some implications for people standing near the field during match play also, particularly field reset volunteers.

I'm reminded of a bone-headed mistake that I made, wearing a green team shirt under my volunteer shirt while working field reset on Curie in 2005. At least one robot tracked me instead of the vision tetra. My unintended interference with autonomous robot functioning might have influenced the outcome of a match. Not a good feeling. I corrected the problem when the field supervisor pointed it out.

If the team colors you are wearing match those of the vision targets, be careful not to get too close to the field.
__________________
Richard Wallace

Mentor since 2011 for FRC 3620 Average Joes (St. Joseph, Michigan)
Mentor 2002-10 for FRC 931 Perpetual Chaos (St. Louis, Missouri)
since 2003

I believe in intuition and inspiration. Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution. It is, strictly speaking, a real factor in scientific research.
(Cosmic Religion : With Other Opinions and Aphorisms (1931) by Albert Einstein, p. 97)
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2009, 21:24
smurfgirl smurfgirl is offline
Still a New Englander on the inside
AKA: Ellen McIsaac
FRC #5012 (Gryffingear)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Palmdale, CA
Posts: 1,725
smurfgirl has a reputation beyond reputesmurfgirl has a reputation beyond reputesmurfgirl has a reputation beyond reputesmurfgirl has a reputation beyond reputesmurfgirl has a reputation beyond reputesmurfgirl has a reputation beyond reputesmurfgirl has a reputation beyond reputesmurfgirl has a reputation beyond reputesmurfgirl has a reputation beyond reputesmurfgirl has a reputation beyond reputesmurfgirl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bad news for Pink, MOE, ThunderChickens ... ?

Oh no... no more hot pink and lime green robots? I'm going to miss having a rainbow of robots around.

I'm impressed that the vision system picked up a green shirt from under another shirt, though- wow.
__________________
Ellen McIsaac
Team 1124 ÜberBots 2005-2015
Team 5012 Gryffingear 2015+
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2009, 21:30
waialua359's Avatar
waialua359 waialua359 is offline
Mentor
AKA: Glenn
FRC #0359 (Hawaiian Kids)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Waialua, HI
Posts: 3,315
waialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bad news for Pink, MOE, ThunderChickens ... ?

So what if MOE teams ups with the PINK team. Can you imagine the multiple vision targets behind the controllers!
__________________

2016 Hawaii Regional #1 seed, IDesign, Safety Award
2016 NY Tech Valley Regional Champions, #1 seed, Innovation in Controls Award
2016 Lake Superior Regional Champions, #1 seed, Quality Award, Dean's List
2015 FRC Worlds-Carver Division Champions
2015 Hawaii Regional Champions, #1 seed.
2015 Australia Regional Champions, #2 seed, Engineering Excellence Award
2015 Inland Empire Regional Champions, #1 seed, Industrial Design Award
2014 OZARK Mountain Brawl Champions, #1 seed.
2014 Hawaii Regional Champions, #1 seed, UL Safety Award
2014 Dallas Regional Champions, #1 seed, Engineering Excellence Award
2014 Northern Lights Regional Champions, #1 seed, Entrepreneurship Award
2013 Championship Dean's List Winner
2013 Utah Regional Champion, #1 seed, KP&B Award, Deans List
2013 Boilermaker Regional Champion, #1 seed, Motorola Quality Award
2012 Lone Star Regional Champion, #1 seed, Motorola Quality Award
2012 Hawaii Regional Champions #1 seed, Motorola Quality Award

Last edited by waialua359 : 12-01-2009 at 22:18. Reason: spelling
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2009, 21:32
NoahTheBoa's Avatar
NoahTheBoa NoahTheBoa is offline
Registered User
AKA: Noah Tomaszewski
FRC #0968 (RAWC)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Pomona
Posts: 95
NoahTheBoa has a spectacular aura aboutNoahTheBoa has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via AIM to NoahTheBoa
Re: Bad news for Pink, MOE, ThunderChickens ... ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by waialua359 View Post
So what is MOE teams ups with the PINK team. Can you imagine the multiple vision targets behind the controllers!
True, there's nothing that says team members can't wear pink/green....
__________________
Team 968 (Mentor) 2011
Team 1138 (Mentor) 2010
Team 1138 (Student) 2005-2009
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2009, 21:36
jgannon's Avatar
jgannon jgannon is offline
I ᐸ3 Robots
AKA: Joey Gannon
no team
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 1,467
jgannon has a reputation beyond reputejgannon has a reputation beyond reputejgannon has a reputation beyond reputejgannon has a reputation beyond reputejgannon has a reputation beyond reputejgannon has a reputation beyond reputejgannon has a reputation beyond reputejgannon has a reputation beyond reputejgannon has a reputation beyond reputejgannon has a reputation beyond reputejgannon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bad news for Pink, MOE, ThunderChickens ... ?

I'd be very reluctant to enforce a violation of <R02-C> if a vision system intended to find a target at a height of 59" is distracted by colorful bumpers at a height of 7". It's hard to call that "specifically intended to interfere", because I would assume that any team sophisticated enough to rely on the vision system knows better than to have their camera pointing at the ground.
__________________
Team 1743 - The Short Circuits
2010 Pittsburgh Excellence in Design & Team Spirit Awards
2009 Pittsburgh Regional Champions (thanks to 222 and 1218)
2007 Pittsburgh Website Award
2006 Pittsburgh Regional Champions (thanks to 395 and 1038)
2006 Pittsburgh Rookie Inspiration & Highest Rookie Seed

Team 1388 - Eagle Robotics
2005 Sacramento Engineering Inspiration
2004 Curie Division Champions (thanks to 1038 and 175)
2004 Sacramento Rookie All-Star

_
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2009, 21:38
NoahTheBoa's Avatar
NoahTheBoa NoahTheBoa is offline
Registered User
AKA: Noah Tomaszewski
FRC #0968 (RAWC)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Pomona
Posts: 95
NoahTheBoa has a spectacular aura aboutNoahTheBoa has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via AIM to NoahTheBoa
Re: Bad news for Pink, MOE, ThunderChickens ... ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgannon View Post
I'd be very reluctant to enforce a violation of <R02-C> if a vision system intended to find a target at a height of 59" is distracted by colorful bumpers at a height of 7". It's hard to call that "specifically intended to interfere", because I would assume that any team sophisticated enough to rely on the vision system knows better than to have their camera pointing at the ground.
Except that in the case of PINK and MOE it is the entire robot that is pink or green which means that it is much closer to the height of the vision target than just bumpers.
__________________
Team 968 (Mentor) 2011
Team 1138 (Mentor) 2010
Team 1138 (Student) 2005-2009
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2009, 21:52
DonRotolo's Avatar
DonRotolo DonRotolo is offline
Back to humble
FRC #0832
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Atlanta GA
Posts: 7,014
DonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bad news for Pink, MOE, ThunderChickens ... ?

Rather than pick up pink or green, we decided to look for a pattern of pink over green (or the other way round) (so we can tell if it is a red or blue trailer, of course). If Pink or MOE get atop each other we may have a problem, but no pattern, no tracking, so colored bumpers should not be an issue for us.
__________________

I am N2IRZ - What's your callsign?
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2009, 21:56
NoahTheBoa's Avatar
NoahTheBoa NoahTheBoa is offline
Registered User
AKA: Noah Tomaszewski
FRC #0968 (RAWC)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Pomona
Posts: 95
NoahTheBoa has a spectacular aura aboutNoahTheBoa has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via AIM to NoahTheBoa
Re: Bad news for Pink, MOE, ThunderChickens ... ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Rotolo View Post
Rather than pick up pink or green, we decided to look for a pattern of pink over green (or the other way round) (so we can tell if it is a red or blue trailer, of course). If Pink or MOE get atop each other we may have a problem, but no pattern, no tracking, so colored bumpers should not be an issue for us.
That's exactly what we're doing, but some teams may just add a simpler tracking program at the last minute due to time constraints or programming ability. So, it could still be an issue for a lot of teams.
__________________
Team 968 (Mentor) 2011
Team 1138 (Mentor) 2010
Team 1138 (Student) 2005-2009
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2009, 22:01
Akash Rastogi Akash Rastogi is offline
Jim Zondag is my Spirit Animal
FRC #2170 (Titanium Tomahawks)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Manchester, Connecticut
Posts: 7,003
Akash Rastogi has a reputation beyond reputeAkash Rastogi has a reputation beyond reputeAkash Rastogi has a reputation beyond reputeAkash Rastogi has a reputation beyond reputeAkash Rastogi has a reputation beyond reputeAkash Rastogi has a reputation beyond reputeAkash Rastogi has a reputation beyond reputeAkash Rastogi has a reputation beyond reputeAkash Rastogi has a reputation beyond reputeAkash Rastogi has a reputation beyond reputeAkash Rastogi has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bad news for Pink, MOE, ThunderChickens ... ?

This is really stupid IMHO.
__________________
My posts and opinions do not necessarily reflect those of my affiliated team.
['16-'xx]: Mentor FRC 2170 | ['11-'13]: Co-Founder/Mentor FRC 3929 | ['06-'10]: Student FRC 11 - MORT | ['08-'12]: Founder - EWCP (OG)
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2009, 22:07
Jim E Jim E is offline
Registered User
FRC #1523 (M.A.R.S.)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Lantana, FL
Posts: 188
Jim E has a reputation beyond reputeJim E has a reputation beyond reputeJim E has a reputation beyond reputeJim E has a reputation beyond reputeJim E has a reputation beyond reputeJim E has a reputation beyond reputeJim E has a reputation beyond reputeJim E has a reputation beyond reputeJim E has a reputation beyond reputeJim E has a reputation beyond reputeJim E has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bad news for Pink, MOE, ThunderChickens ... ?

We noticed that MARS's red shirts were picked up as pink until we tweaked the settings a little bit.

Thankfully, our robots tend to be more black than red, but the red will be there.

It is up to the teams to focus on the correct targets, and also on the teams to change their robot color scheme if it conflicts with the swatches provided in the KOP. Do it for your alliance partners' benefit.

Shirts outside the playing field should not be an issue. Most cameras will be used for autonomous only, or should have an override if a problem develops in tele-op mode..
__________________
Team MARS = 1.523 AU from the SUN!

Jim E.
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2009, 22:12
Adam Y.'s Avatar
Adam Y. Adam Y. is offline
Adam Y.
no team (?????)
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Long Island
Posts: 1,979
Adam Y. is a splendid one to beholdAdam Y. is a splendid one to beholdAdam Y. is a splendid one to beholdAdam Y. is a splendid one to beholdAdam Y. is a splendid one to beholdAdam Y. is a splendid one to beholdAdam Y. is a splendid one to behold
Send a message via AIM to Adam Y.
Re: Bad news for Pink, MOE, ThunderChickens ... ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgannon View Post
I'd be very reluctant to enforce a violation of <R02-C> if a vision system intended to find a target at a height of 59" is distracted by colorful bumpers at a height of 7". It's hard to call that "specifically intended to interfere", because I would assume that any team sophisticated enough to rely on the vision system knows better than to have their camera pointing at the ground.
If the robot is far enough away from the camera it will be in the range of the camera no matter what direction you are pointing it at because the robot will be in the field of view. I wold have to do the math to figure out if it would be possible but it is not exactly something that can be hand waved as absurd.
__________________
If either a public officer or any one else saw a person attempting to cross a bridge which had been ascertained to be unsafe, and there were no time to warn him of his danger, they might seize him and turn him back without any real infringement of his liberty; for liberty consists in doing what one desires, and he does not desire to fall into the river. -Mill

Last edited by Adam Y. : 12-01-2009 at 22:23.
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2009, 22:33
CDH Jeff's Avatar
CDH Jeff CDH Jeff is offline
Registered User
FRC #2450 (Raiderbots)
Team Role: Electrical
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: St. Paul
Posts: 35
CDH Jeff is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Bad news for Pink, MOE, ThunderChickens ... ?

I'm not a programmer, but couldn't you also include in the code to look for the colored bumpers directly below the pink and green? like if pink's on top, have the robot make sure that the bumpers are red before it shoots.
__________________
"why are 'standard' and 'metric' different?! metric should be the standard!"
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2009, 22:48
mark johnson's Avatar
mark johnson mark johnson is offline
Registered User
FRC #3175 (knight vision)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: clinton twp michigan
Posts: 71
mark johnson has much to be proud ofmark johnson has much to be proud ofmark johnson has much to be proud ofmark johnson has much to be proud ofmark johnson has much to be proud ofmark johnson has much to be proud ofmark johnson has much to be proud ofmark johnson has much to be proud ofmark johnson has much to be proud of
Red face Re: Bad news for Pink, MOE, ThunderChickens ... ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard View Post
This Q&A response has some implications for people standing near the field during match play also, particularly field reset volunteers.

I'm reminded of a bone-headed mistake that I made, wearing a green team shirt under my volunteer shirt while working field reset on Curie in 2005. At least one robot tracked me instead of the vision tetra. My unintended interference with autonomous robot functioning might have influenced the outcome of a match. Not a good feeling. I corrected the problem when the field supervisor pointed it out.

If the team colors you are wearing match those of the vision targets, be careful not to get too close to the field.
Team 66 the Flyers were the team that went after your green shirt!!! They were one of a few that could score in auton that year. The robot saw your shirt turned 90 degrees and went full blast into the wall, destroying there arm and ending there run through the playoffs. I know this because we shared a bus down to Atlanta, they were bummed out, but did not hold you personelly responsible,these things happen.
__________________
K.I.S.S.
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bad News for teams on Waiting List Nawaid Ladak Championship Event 57 06-04-2007 11:32
Bad news about Surface Dylan Chit-Chat 0 24-07-2006 17:06
Bad and Good news for Computer Science AIBob Math and Science 8 31-01-2005 18:59
Bad and Good news for Computer Science AIBob Programming 5 31-01-2005 14:02
Good News Bad News archiver 2000 8 23-06-2002 22:45


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 00:56.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi