Can your team use the machines?

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Posted by Geli Donut at 2/13/2001 9:47 AM EST


Student on team #141, WO-Bot, from West Ottawa High School and Johnson Controls Inc..



This year, our sponsor began a new rule which wouldn't allow students to use any power tools. I was wondering if any other teams have any rules preventing students from using machines and tools. What do other teams think about this. Thanks.

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Posted by Anton Abaya at 2/13/2001 11:49 AM EST


Coach on team #419, Rambots, from UMass Boston / BC High and NONE AT THE MOMENT! .


In Reply to: Can your team use the machines?
Posted by Geli Donut on 2/13/2001 9:47 AM EST:



: This year, our sponsor began a new rule which wouldn't allow students to use any power tools. I was wondering if any other teams have any rules preventing students from using machines and tools. What do other teams think about this. Thanks.

hmm, i think h/s students should be able to use power tools definitely. but before doing so, they need to be taught how to use em properly. (as in a class or something).

heck, i let them play with the tools and make fancy weapons when i'm around. but all in a sensible and safe manner of course.

I could imagine why your sponsor may have imposed this rule, but it would be difficult for high school students to learn if they cannot do it themselves. On my team, I let them do things once in a while when they "feel confident" not to mess up. They are off limits at the machine shop though as those are way bigger machines. (i try to stay away myself as my fingers are going to be expensive someday).

good luck.

-anton

ps. my tip, bring your own power tools. then they really cant bug u about it.

pps. talk to FIRST. see what they can do about it.

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Posted by Kevin Sevcik at 2/13/2001 11:50 AM EST


Other on team #57, Leopards, from BT Washington and the High School for Engineering Professions and Exxon, Kellog Brown & Root, Powell Electrical.


In Reply to: Can your team use the machines?
Posted by Geli Donut on 2/13/2001 9:47 AM EST:



Our wrokshop sponsor, Brown & Root has become more and more strict about who can use the big machines. First year, just about anyone could use them. Of course, the we were dulling and clogging bits + tools like crazy. Second year, only veterans could use them, until someone left a chuck key in a lathe. Twice.
Now we've got spring loaded chuck keys, and only a specific few are allowed to machine things or supervise others machining things. Of course some know-it-alls still try to do tings themselves. Last week one of them managed to snap a cut-off tool in half on the lathe. While they were machining delrin.
So in conclusion, we've been put under progressively more strict rules every year, and I think it's really a good thing. It protects the kids and the tools, and encourages people to draw and dimension things instead of making things up as they go.

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Posted by ChrisH at 2/13/2001 6:21 PM EST


Engineer on team #330, Beach 'Bots, from Hope Chapel Academy and NASA JPL, J & F Machine, Raytheon, et al.


In Reply to: Re: Can your team use the machines?
Posted by Kevin Sevcik on 2/13/2001 11:50 AM EST:



: Our wrokshop sponsor, Brown & Root has become more and more strict about who can use the big machines. First year, just about anyone could use them. Of course, the we were dulling and clogging bits + tools like crazy. Second year, only veterans could use them, until someone left a chuck key in a lathe. Twice.
: Now we've got spring loaded chuck keys, and only a specific few are allowed to machine things or supervise others machining things. Of course some know-it-alls still try to do tings themselves. Last week one of them managed to snap a cut-off tool in half on the lathe. While they were machining delrin.
: So in conclusion, we've been put under progressively more strict rules every year, and I think it's really a good thing. It protects the kids and the tools, and encourages people to draw and dimension things instead of making things up as they go.

Anybody that could snap a cutoff tool machining Delrin needs to be kept away from machine tools.

While I agree with drawing things first, it is also good to have hands on experience. The single most valuable class I took in college in terms of value/awarded credit was a practical shop class I got 1 credit for.

On our team the machine tools are about 30 min. away from our build room. So students go over there to work in small groups. Like 2 at a time. They are supervised closely while running the mill. Less closely on the cut-off saw as most are familiar with band saws already and it is a big ugly thing that seems to scream "Be Careful". Nobody gets to work the lathe or CNC machines.

Student personality has a big impact on who goes over to the shop in the first place. If we get worried when they pick up a power drill then they probably aren't going. BTW this applies to adults too. But we don't have any of those on our team at the moment.

There is one guy I work with though who we tell "put that down before you hurt somebody" every time he picks up a tool. He's not stupid, just not very co-ordinated. Like if he's using a hammer he can't hit the nail, so he usually hits something else. Good thing he's an engineer and not a lab tech...

Chris Husmann, PE and part time lab tech
Team 330 the Beach'Bots

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Posted by Kevin Sevcik at 2/14/2001 12:47 AM EST


Other on team #57, Leopards, from BT Washington and the High School for Engineering Professions and Exxon, Kellog Brown & Root, Powell Electrical.


In Reply to: Re: Can your team use the machines?
Posted by ChrisH on 2/13/2001 6:21 PM EST:



I'm all for hands on experience, just not at the expense of machinery or lives. As for the cut-off bit thing, that surprised me as well. I decided they either ran it into the chuck, or took it into the piece and tried to move it sideways. I'm leaning towards option 2, as option 1 would've been a lot louder.
Also, the students involved have been banned from the lathe for the remainder of the competition. When they were asking why, and saying that it was just a cut-off bit, I could only remind them that that was the first cut-off bit ever broken in the history of our team.

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Posted by Joe Ross at 2/13/2001 12:02 PM EST


Engineer on team #330, Beach Bot, from Hope Chapel Academy and NASA/JPL , J&F Machine, and Raytheon.


In Reply to: Can your team use the machines?
Posted by Geli Donut on 2/13/2001 9:47 AM EST:



: This year, our sponsor began a new rule which wouldn't allow students to use any power tools. I was wondering if any other teams have any rules preventing students from using machines and tools. What do other teams think about this. Thanks.

It depends on what types of machines and tools you are talking about. I think that all the students should get to operate (and learn how to use) tools like a cordless drill and jigsaw. Tools like a Mill and a Lathe are different story though. It takes skill and training to operate those types of machines.

If you sponsor is saying no power tools whatsoever, then I would have a problem with that. If they are saying don't use our expensive machine tools, then that is definately a reasonable request.

my $0.02

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Posted by Ellery at 2/13/2001 12:29 PM EST


Engineer on team #191, X-CATS, from Joseph C. Wilson High School, Rochester NY and Xerox Corporation.


In Reply to: Can your team use the machines?
Posted by Geli Donut on 2/13/2001 9:47 AM EST:



: This year, our sponsor began a new rule which wouldn't allow students to use any power tools. I was wondering if any other teams have any rules preventing students from using machines and tools. What do other teams think about this. Thanks.

Well I agree with Joe- it depends which machines you're talking about and how much knowledge must be known to use them. But As for the X-CATS team we've always promoted student use of most of our shop equipment like lathes, mills,band saws and other power tools. But we do have limitations on certain items like chop saws and table saws for obvious reasons. Our shop always has 3 adults in it at all times and most tasks we ask the students to do will usually be accompanied by one of the adult subteam members.

As always we provide the proper safety training for all team members before each season starts. Hands on learning is the only true way to learn.

That's just my opinion. Your sponsor ultimately has the last say in it since it is their equipment and ultimate responsibility for the students' safety.

Ellery

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Posted by Ken Leung at 2/13/2001 2:47 PM EST


Student on team #192, Gunn Robotics Team, from Henry M. Gunn Senior High School.


In Reply to: Can your team use the machines?
Posted by Geli Donut on 2/13/2001 9:47 AM EST:



For our team we have a machine shop in our high school used by our class for robotics, Engineering Technology. For years the machines open to all students in that class to do projects... machines such as band saw, disk sander, lathe, mill, chop saw. But all the students have to be at least 16 years old to be in the class.

At the beginning of fall semester, we always have our teacher along with couple of skilled students teaching the rest of the class basic operation and safety of the machines, and everyone will have to make a "shop project" to get certified for the tools.

Starting 1999, our student leader decided to have a "head of work shop" taking care of everything in the shop, including safety, maintenance of the machine, hand tools organization, etc. And I was appointed to be such person that year. So pretty much after that I was always there to make sure students don't hurt themselves and that they use the tools properly.

One thing that showed how much we want to take care of the tools is when the new mill arrived. Since it's a brand new machine, we had to make sure whoever's using it knows its safety and function really well. So at the beginning we decided that only a few students could be operators for that machine, so that the entire class won't be crowded in front of it. All the operators had to take a safety written test, and had a real machinist come in to teach us proper usage for that mill. After that I started sitting in front of the machine whenever other operators were using it to make sure they do not hurt the machine in any way. The rules on that machine are extremely strict.

Being a machinist myself, I understand the strict rules inside the shop. After all, it¡¦s both the students¡¦ health and the cost of machines that we all have to worry about. So, whenever our students have accidents in the shop, I was never afraid to kick them out for the day, although that never happened. But I must say, letting the students use the machine all the time is one of the biggest educational activities in our team. I encourage you to take the time to convince your sponsors that your students are good and safe enough for the power tools.

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Posted by Carrie at 2/13/2001 6:01 PM EST


Student on team #27, Team Rush, from OSMTech Academy and Textron.


In Reply to: Can your team use the machines?
Posted by Geli Donut on 2/13/2001 9:47 AM EST:



: This year, our sponsor began a new rule which wouldn't allow students to use any power tools. I was wondering if any other teams have any rules preventing students from using machines and tools. What do other teams think about this. Thanks.


Last year students were not allowed to use machines, and we were very up set about it, I actually gave up building because we couldn't use machines. But this year our AWESOME new sponser Textron let's the students use machines...Which makes me happy!
~~~~Carrie team 27

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Posted by Rimple Bhakta at 2/13/2001 7:13 PM EST


Other on team #438, Gladiators, from Jack Yates High School and Mrs. Reagan Flowers.


In Reply to: Can your team use the machines?
Posted by Geli Donut on 2/13/2001 9:47 AM EST:



some members of our team learned to run the Lathe, the Mill, the plasma cutter, the MIG welder and the drill press at our sponsers shop, ARC Specialties ( http://www.arcspecialties.com/ )

it is all fairly easy, all you gotta do is be aware of what you are using, it's hazards,safety specs,etc... and know what you are doing
and of coures with adult supervision

and if you make a mistake...you learn from it... it's all that simple...

so in my opnion students should learn if they want to learn power tools...

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Posted by Matt Leese at 2/13/2001 7:25 PM EST


Other on team #73, Tigerbolt, from Edison Technical HS and Alstom & Fiber Technologies & RIT.


In Reply to: Can your team use the machines?
Posted by Geli Donut on 2/13/2001 9:47 AM EST:



Our students use the machines all the time. Then again we work at the high school. But seriously, the high school has most machine tools we need: drill presses, lathes, mills, etc. We also tend to use the sheet metal shop (you can do amazing things with some of that equipment). Actually, the students can use the machine tools whereas I can't because I have no clue how to use most of them. So far, none of robot has been built by our sponsor or by RIT.

Matt