Here's the GDC we know and love

[Stu Bloom]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=11175

Check this one out ...

http://forums.usfirst.org/showpost.php?p=23478 ... second paragraph specifically

I think it is even better ...

[ChrisH]

Originally Posted by Stu Bloom

Check this one out ...



I think it is even better ...

I don't. Everytime the GDC starts making silly remarks in an official response (which like it or not, a Q&A answer is) some poor soul or team gets confused. As an official, I'm one of the people who has to help cleanup the mess. Try telling some team that what they built is illegal because they didn't understand somebody acting in an official capacity was making a joke.

At least these two responses are hard to implement in hardware.

[Stu Bloom]

Originally Posted by ChrisH

I don't. Everytime the GDC starts making silly remarks in an official response (which like it or not, a Q&A answer is) some poor soul or team gets confused. As an official, I'm one of the people who has to help cleanup the mess. Try telling some team that what they built is illegal because they didn't understand somebody acting in an official capacity was making a joke.

At least these two responses are hard to implement in hardware.

Understood, I am an official too. Head referee 6 times over the past 3 years, so I understand that sentiment. However it is the team's responsibility to at least read and try to understand the ENTIRE manual BEFORE asking questions that require valuable resources to answer.

Sometimes a little levity helps break the tension in a stressful environment.

I would genuinely like to know of any concrete example where one of the GDC "funnies" caused a team any hardship.

[flightofone]

I think the GDC has a GREAT sense of humor, and really appreciate the job they do. Keep it up.
btw: the bumper issue seems crystal clear at this point.

[SuperJake]

Originally Posted by ChrisH

Everytime the GDC starts making silly remarks in an official response (which like it or not, a Q&A answer is) some poor soul or team gets confused.

Every year FIRST makes a big deal about only one person from the team is allowed to post questions on the forum and that before one posts, they should check the rules and other responses already posted. I guarantee they are sifting through TONS of duplicate questions and TONS of questions that are the simplest interpretations in the manual.

It is fine for a couple of questions like that to get through because of rookie teams, but I'm sure it must be frustrating for the GDC to have to constantly answer the same questions over and over again. From their point of view it would seem like no one reads the manual, team updates, or other Q&A responses. From our point of view it would seem like the GDC has spent too many nights locked up in a darkened room after eating too many Krispy Kremes to make any sense.

In my opinion, no one will know how this year's game is supposed to be played until a little after 12:00am on April 19th.

[XXShadowXX]

tuesday by 5p.m. team update number 3 hopefully....

falls on knees "WE JUST WANT TO UNDERSTAND! TO UNDERSTAND! NOT THE MEANING OF LIFE... jus ..jus..JUST HOW TO MOUNT OUR BUMPERS! PLEASE GDC THIS IS ALL WE ASK!"

[artdutra04]

If I had to deal with hundreds of questions every day dealing with all kinds of questions (many of which are repetitive), I'd throw humor into the responses just to keep my sanity.

And I still don't understand everyone's dilemma about the bumpers. Cover all your corners on the robot perimeter with at least 6" of bumpers on either side of corner vertex. Must cover at least 66.67% of robot perimeter (string method) with bumpers. Leave opening for trailer hitch, so trailer makes bumper-to-bumper contact. Mount at correct height and fabricate according to instructions.

Unless I'm missing something, it's not that hard to figure out.

[Jared Russell]

Originally Posted by artdutra04

If I had to deal with hundreds of questions every day dealing with all kinds of questions (many of which are repetitive), I'd throw humor into the responses just to keep my sanity.

And I still don't understand everyone's dilemma about the bumpers. Cover all your corners on the robot perimeter with at least 6" of bumpers on either side of corner vertex. Must cover at least 66.67% of robot perimeter (string method) with bumpers. Leave opening for trailer hitch, so trailer makes bumper-to-bumper contact. Mount at correct height and fabricate according to instructions.

Unless I'm missing something, it's not that hard to figure out.

It gets into concave openings into your robot. Prior to the Q&A response where the GDC said that corners must be protected on both sides, many teams (such as mine, and from the look of it 842 as well) assumed that we wouldn't need bumpers on both sides of the corner. Moreover, the rule that bumpers can only be on the BUMPER PERIMETER means that there appears to be no way to satisfy the GDC while having exterior corners of less than 90 degrees on your robot. This makes a lot of designs I have seen on Delphi illegal, and I don't think that was the GDC's intent. For example, harvesters now effectively must drive the "wide" way in order to meet the apparent bumper rules.

Direct, specific questions have been asked by my team and by others in the Q&A forum, and they have yet to be answered. I can only assume that the answers are being withheld for Team Update 3.

[jgannon]

Originally Posted by Abwehr

there appears to be no way to satisfy the GDC while having exterior corners of less than 90 degrees on your robot

Any flavor of triangle or quadrilateral can easily satisfy the bumper rules, even with acute angles. It's only when you start adding more vertices and the polygon becomes concave that things get complicated.

[Jared Russell]

Originally Posted by jgannon

Any flavor of triangle or quadrilateral can easily satisfy the bumper rules, even with acute angles. It's only when you start adding more vertices and the polygon becomes concave that things get complicated.

That's just the scenario that I've been trying to get a straight answer about.

[Killraine]

Originally Posted by artdutra04

If I had to deal with hundreds of questions every day dealing with all kinds of questions (many of which are repetitive), I'd throw humor into the responses just to keep my sanity.

And I still don't understand everyone's dilemma about the bumpers. Cover all your corners on the robot perimeter with at least 6" of bumpers on either side of corner vertex. Must cover at least 66.67% of robot perimeter (string method) with bumpers. Leave opening for trailer hitch, so trailer makes bumper-to-bumper contact. Mount at correct height and fabricate according to instructions.

Unless I'm missing something, it's not that hard to figure out.

What defines the length of the bumper? My team was thinking about angling the bumpers near our "mouth" for taking in balls to give us a larger opening. does the section that is angled not count toward the bumper length/covered length? Also, imagine the two 6 inch bumpers at a 90 degree corner. If we beveled the bumpers to have them join (shown in the rule book) where is the 6 inches measured from?

[Matt C]

Originally Posted by Killraine

What defines the length of the bumper? My team was thinking about angling the bumpers near our "mouth" for taking in balls to give us a larger opening. does the section that is angled not count toward the bumper length/covered length? Also, imagine the two 6 inch bumpers at a 90 degree corner. If we beveled the bumpers to have them join (shown in the rule book) where is the 6 inches measured from?

Wouldn't rule <R08> section O (figure 8 - 4) prevent you from extending the bumper past the edge of the robot and "connect" in any way?

Edited: Actually, you are talking about beveling the noodles, not the backing, meaning that if the 6 inches is applied to the pool noodle you could technically have up to 3.5" of noodle overhanging (per section N), with 2.5" of backing attached to the robot if the 6 inch minimum isn't applied to the backing.

Edited again:
(Update 2 seems to indicate that the 6 inch minimum is applied to the "hard" part of the bumpers (hence the 26" maximum opening after bumpers.)

[GaryVoshol]

The GDC has posted that the 6" is measured for any portion of the bumper containing all 3 elements needed for a standard bumper: Plywood, Noodles and Fabric. Noodles and fabric may be longer than the plywood, but not shorter. You can't use a half wide noodle on a standard bumper.

[Killraine]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

The GDC has posted that the 6" is measured for any portion of the bumper containing all 3 elements needed for a standard bumper: Plywood, Noodles and Fabric. Noodles and fabric may be longer than the plywood, but not shorter. You can't use a half wide noodle on a standard bumper.

Would the same be true for calculating if 2/3 of your robot is covered?

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by Killraine

Would the same be true for calculating if 2/3 of your robot is covered?

Yes.