Question about Netting

[Mitch1525]

Our team is thinking about using a net or net type material to hold the balls. We know that the robot cannot extend outside the 28 X 38 X 60, but what if it can be pulled to extend out of those dimension? Since netting is usually stretchy, to some extent at least, would that pose a problem or should it be ok?

[Matt C]

Sounds like a question for the GDC.

My first question to you though would be, what would this net be pulled by to extend out of your envelope, since no device can exit another robots envelope to enter yours?

If it's designed in such a way that it always deflects to some extend I'd say it most likely would violate the envelope rule.
If it would be some sort of accidental thing that COULD happen, but would not give you an advantage and would not be considered "normal" operation, then I would chance saying it's probably not a big deal, but would obviously be at the discretion of the refs and/or inspectors.

[Mitch1525]

We were thinking that the judges might pull it out while we are being measured. Not sure if they would, since we have never used netting before. I figured I might as well ask.

[smurfgirl]

Originally Posted by Mitch1525

Our team is thinking about using a net or net type material to hold the balls. We know that the robot cannot extend outside the 28 X 38 X 60, but what if it can be pulled to extend out of those dimension? Since netting is usually stretchy, to some extent at least, would that pose a problem or should it be ok?

There are two ways I can see this happening.

1) Entanglement with another bot, which then pulls you outside of your bumper perimeter.

As another robot would be causing you to break a rule, you wouldn't be penalized for expanding too far (<G18>). However, your robot would be an entanglement hazard- you might not get penalized (DQed) for a one-time problem, but it would be wise to build your robot so that it does not pose an obvious risk of entanglement (<G33>).

<G18>
Causing PENALTIES – The actions of a ROBOT shall not cause an opposing ROBOT to break a rule and thus incur penalties. Any rule violations committed by the affected ROBOT shall be excused, and no penalties will be assigned.

<G33>
ROBOT Entanglement – Entangled ROBOTS will be disabled if attempts to disengage are causing damage or a dangerous situation. If it is determined that a ROBOT intentionally entangles an opposing ROBOT, the offending ROBOT will be disqualified. If, due to loose cables, hoses, cords, etc., a ROBOT unintentionally but routinely entangles another ROBOT as a result of normal game interaction, the ROBOT may be disqualified. The TEAM will be required to repair the entangling elements before the ROBOT will be permitted to participate in subsequent MATCHES.

2) You overfill your netting with game pieces, and expand outside your bumper perimeter.

This would earn you a penalty, because you have violated the robot rules (<R16>, <G16>).

<R16> Once the MATCH has started, the ROBOT may assume a PLAYING CONFIGURATION that
is different from the STARTING CONFIGURATION. The ROBOT must be designed such
that the PLAYING CONFIGURATION of the ROBOT shall not exceed the dimensions
specified in Rule <R11>. When in the PLAYING CONFIGURATION, no part of the ROBOT
may extend outside the vertical projection of the BUMPER PERIMETER.

<G16>
ROBOT Size - Each ROBOT shall not exceed the maximum weight or volume specified in Rule <R11>. The Head Referee may call for an inspector's recertification of the ROBOT size and weight prior to the start of any MATCH. ROBOTS determined to be in violation prior to the start of a MATCH will be prohibited from participating in the MATCH. Any ROBOT determined to be in violation during a MATCH will assigned a PENALTY and will receive a YELLOW CARD (see Rule <S04>).

Edit: I see that while I was typing and searching down manual quotes, you clarified a bit. When you get measured, they are going to stick your robot in a box which represents the maximum robot size. If you fit in the box, you're good to go. They won't pull out the netting, but if it does expand beyond the bumper perimeter enough for the refs to notice during the course of a match, then see the two circumstances I posted above.

[fishgurl]

I wouldn't reccomend having netting that can get snagged by another bot. In 2006, we were debating using netting and decided on a more solid fabric.

[Matt C]

I don't think entanglement issues will be seen all that often this year since robots are not allowed to extend outside of their bumper zones, but a more hefty material may be in order just for a more rugged design's sake.

[NorviewsVeteran]

We used chicken wire for the poof balls in 2006. It worked okay, but I left that build day with quite a few scratches on my hands.

[Matt C]

Originally Posted by NorviewsVeteran

We used chicken wire for the poof balls in 2006. It worked okay, but I left that build day with quite a few scratches on my hands.

Was it . . uh . . chicken scratch

[smurfgirl]

Originally Posted by fishgurl

I wouldn't reccomend having netting that can get snagged by another bot. In 2006, we were debating using netting and decided on a more solid fabric.

Originally Posted by NorviewsVeteran

We used chicken wire for the poof balls in 2006. It worked okay, but I left that build day with quite a few scratches on my hands.

We used a loose netting in 2006 for our robot, but veiled the entire robot in a mesh fabric (we nicknamed it "the corpse bride" because of this) for safety and endurance issues. It held up through the season, and we have since removed the mesh from the outside. However, I'm going to have to agree with the above posters- a substantial fabric would probably be preferred. Also, scratchy things like chicken wire (or the aluminum guards we also had on our 06 robot) are bad news- you end up with lots of scratched and bleeding students, especially when making repairs.

[Tom Line]

Your real question here should be: will the balls force the netting out when you're full.

If that netting extend over your bumpers - not past them, just over them, you're illegal. You may not have anything extend past the bumper perimeter. The bumper perimeter is the inside edges of your bumpers.

[Katie_UPS]

I'm not sure, but make sure that netting is permitted in the bill off parts.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Katie_UPS

I'm not sure, but make sure that netting is permitted in the bill off parts.

It is; just make sure that it follows the above-quoted rules.

[dlavery]

Originally Posted by Mitch1525

Our team is thinking about using a net or net type material to hold the balls. We know that the robot cannot extend outside the 28 X 38 X 60, but what if it can be pulled to extend out of those dimension? Since netting is usually stretchy, to some extent at least, would that pose a problem or should it be ok?

Asked and answered in the FIRST Q&A system

-dave




.

[Tristan Lall]

Originally Posted by dlavery

Asked and answered in the FIRST Q&A system

Looks like somebody dropped that in the 2008 Q&A forum by accident. (It's been reported.)