Shooter vs Dumper Trade Study

[647techangel]

i think making a dump bot is sticking to good old K.I.S.S , because if you think about it you have 3 "shooters" already (payload specialist).

[redbarron]

We have been debating on how to score since kick off but have decided to go with a shooter. When you are a dumper you are relying on getting close to the opponents trailer. Though you can can score more balls at once you will be sitting still while dumping. I am in no way saying that there will not be a team that will pin a bot and dump their load in about 5 seconds, but it will be kind of sad to see for example a load of 7 moon rocks get "dumped" as a super cell lands in the dumping robots trailer resulting in -1 points for the load of seven you just worked hard to get rid of. A shooter can be run at low speeds and if the balls are delivered to the shooter fast can be just as, if not more effective than a dumper.

Just my .02

[MattB703]

Originally Posted by redbarron

.... I am in no way saying that there will not be a team that will pin a bot and dump their load in about 5 seconds, ....
Just my .02

5 seconds is an eternity for a good dumper design. all of our prototyping says that we should be able to dump 7 balls in about 2 seconds. (not counting the time it takes to chase down and pin an opponent of course)

[spc295]

I think the dumpers will do better, because a shooter has to deal with broken orbit balls, the dumper just uses gravity.

[Aren_Hill]

Originally Posted by spc295

I think the dumpers will do better, because a shooter has to deal with broken orbit balls, the dumper just uses gravity.

not all dumpers will just use gravity, teams who really want a good dumper are gonna figure out how to effectively "hurl" the balls out of there robot quickly and in large quantities

[JesseK]

Originally Posted by Aren_Hill

not all dumpers will just use gravity, teams who really want a good dumper are gonna figure out how to effectively "hurl" the balls out of there robot quickly and in large quantities

That's what all of these air propulsion system prototypes are REALLY about, ha! I came to that realization a couple of days after kickoff...nice to see someone else has it too.

But as a team we decided on a shooter, and we're not looking back this far into it.

[Team2339]

Jeff's hint about shotguns is our strategy. we are dumping, hopefully with two rates, one close, the other 5 to 8 feet, or over one robot to a basket or the station. It is simple and something we can finish in 6 weeks. The scoring would be a % of balls shot, then pick um up and shoot again

[Swampdude]

If you're planning to take a big basket of balls and sling them all at once in a given direction, I hope you're considering the equally opposite force applied to your bot while its sitting on a slippery floor at the point of release.

[hillale]

Originally Posted by Swampdude

If you're planning to take a big basket of balls and sling them all at once in a given direction, I hope you're considering the equally opposite force applied to your bot while its sitting on a slippery floor at the point of release.

Why not employ that wonderful friend of everyone's? Gravity! Obey it, it's the law.

[Ian Curtis]

Originally Posted by hillale

Why not employ that wonderful friend of everyone's? Gravity! Obey it, it's the law.

We have found that another common friend (and typical foe when it comes to collecting balls) Friction rears its head and causes these nice elastic orbit balls to seize up and resist that oh-so-appealing 9.8 m/s^2.

[hillale]

Originally Posted by iCurtis

We have found that another common friend (and typical foe when it comes to collecting balls) Friction rears its head and causes these nice elastic orbit balls to seize up and resist that oh-so-appealing 9.8 m/s^2.

Come on, you've got plenty of room above, let's say the middle length poles on the trailer, to create a large enough pitch in the floor of a hopper for balls to overcome their inertia and friction. A trap door maybe with a fairly large area maybe including part of the front of your robot?

[Tom Line]

Originally Posted by hillale

Come on, you've got plenty of room above, let's say the middle length poles on the trailer, to create a large enough pitch in the floor of a hopper for balls to overcome their inertia and friction. A trap door maybe with a fairly large area maybe including part of the front of your robot?

Exactly. We've already proven to ourselves that you don't need one of those fancy spiral/loop systems to efficiently get the balls to feed. You can spin the hopper and pulll balls out ala the killer bees giant gumball machine in '06. You can put a screw in ala a washing machine center post (vertical style, not front load). You can have an agitator/swing arm device. Most all of these will fit above the 34 inches, or a short conveyor belt will let you go all the way down to the robot base with your storage.

[travis48elite]

Well both systems have there ups and downs. However, I would have go towards the dumper system due to the fact that shooters run the risk of collecting a damaged game piece and getting it jammed in their shooter and then they are out for the rest of the match. Where as for a dumper it does not present such a hazard to jamming their mechanism. Yet with a dumper once you activate you mechanism you are pretty much hoping you will score all you pieces in the trailer however, this never happens most of the time. The only way you can accomplish this is by pining the robot's trailer to the wall and score. Ultimately, I would have to go with the dumper just because come championship who knows if we are even going to have enough game pieces for the four fields in each division.

[gorrilla]

what about the "ninja" robots,they will score only 2-4 moon rocks at a time but will do it the entire match, every time,from anywhere....?

[Aren_Hill]

Originally Posted by travis48elite

Yet with a dumper once you activate you mechanism you are pretty much hoping you will score all you pieces in the trailer however, this never happens most of the time.

If you pay attention to the midwest matches, you will see more balls spat out in error by the shooters than the dumpers, at least our dumper. Our auxiliary guy had fast enough fingers to save the majority of the balls if we triggered and they moved, and even if they did miss they fell right in front of our massive intake....and came right back in the bot to be scored typically seconds later.