So, do we rely on our payload specialist?

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by PhilBot

I don't see anywhere in the rules that permits passing rocks through the outpost port TO the payload specialist.

So once they deliver their rocks/cells they are done.

If an alliance has a robot that cannot score, then their specialist will start out with the full 20 rocks. Best to put them in the outpost?

Read your team updates.

[EricLeifermann]

I believe that you put the HP with the best accuracy not in the Outpost, but you also have to talk to your alliance partners to see what strategy you want to go with. I also don't believe you should "penalize" a team who can't score by putting their HP at the outpost. Just because their robot can't score doesn't mean that their HP can't score faster and or better than your robot.

But like i said before it will all come down to alliance strategy and what the alliance agrees on. Unlike other years this is going to take alot of talking to make sure everyone is ok with where their HP goes.

[Koko Ed]

One thing that stuck out to me from 2006 and 2007 that I don't think teams pay enough attention to is properly training the human player. Just letting them chuck balls (and in 2007's case tubes) indiscriminately they would either waste balls (by chucking the ball when it wasn't your scoring period) or get rings caught on robots in 2007 thus neutralizing a robots ability to score (can't possess two rings at once).
How many times this year are we going to witness Payload Specialists scoring on their own robot or alliance because they can't aim straight, aren't looking where they're throwing or have no clue what color their alliance is or what teams are on it. It's not as far fetched as it seems. I swear at least 25% of the teams out there act like every day of the competition is Thursday and are just doing their own thing with no plan whatsoever of what their going to do and taking their alliance partners down with them. That's why it is very important that ALL team members read and understand the rules of the game.. Not just the drivers.

[PhilBot]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

That's why it is very important that ALL team members read and understand the rules of the game.. Not just the drivers.

I agree. In fact, once the robot has passed inspection, it's really hard for it to get penalties this year (not like Overdrive). Most of the likely penanties are received by the human players:

eg: Leaving their allocated zone, touching the balls in the airlock, throwing empty cells over the outpost wall, throwing the rocks around the side of the field, using Super-Cells before the 20 sec period.

Plus, miss-thrown balls can score against you just as easily as for you.

Human players can REALLY bring down the team score if you are not carfull.

Usually this is a "desirable" team function. I recommend creating a Payload Specialist "Quiz" that needs to be answered 100% correctly before even being considered for this position.

[PhilBot]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

Read your team updates.

I'm not a Nube that doesn't read the rules or updates. But I can miss things.

If you want to take pleasure in "outing" me, please have the courtesy to be specific. Update?... Section?...

Phil.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by PhilBot

I'm not a Nube that doesn't read the rules or updates. But I can miss things.

If you want to take pleasure in "outing" me, please have the courtesy to be specific. Update?... Section?...

Phil.

Originally Posted by Team update #3 Section <G20> part C

C. MOON ROCKS can be recycled to the PAYLOAD SPECIALISTS by passing
them over/through the AIRLOCK and through the FUELING PORT in the Alliance
Station Wall, or by passing them through the port in the OUTPOST shield.
MOON ROCKS can not be recycled to the PAYLOAD SPECIALISTS via any
other paths (e.g. over the OUTPOST shield or Alliance Station Wall). A violation
will cause a PENALTY to be assigned.

I did not intend on 'outing' you, and I apologize if it seemed that way.

[PhilBot]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

I did not intend on 'outing' you, and I apologize if it seemed that way.

Thanks for the specifics.
I did indeed miss that change when reading the update. When I reviewed the rules *before* posting I must have had an outdated copy.

My "outing" comment was based on my dislike of posts that just make statements that "imply" the writer knows more than the original poster, without actually helping the original poster to obtain that knowledge.

We all know that there are LOTS of rules and Q&A's and Updates.
Many people (like me) post to find out if we've missed something.
(I already spend at least two hours a day keeping up on FTC, FRC & FLL)

So being told to "read the rules" is pretty annoying.

Sorry if I over-reacted.
Bygones ?

Phil.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by PhilBot

I agree. In fact, once the robot has passed inspection, it's really hard for it to get penalties this year (not like Overdrive). Most of the likely penanties are received by the human players:

eg: Leaving their allocated zone, touching the balls in the airlock, throwing empty cells over the outpost wall, throwing the rocks around the side of the field, using Super-Cells before the 20 sec period.

Plus, miss-thrown balls can score against you just as easily as for you.

Human players can REALLY bring down the team score if you are not carfull.

Usually this is a "desirable" team function. I recommend creating a Payload Specialist "Quiz" that needs to be answered 100% correctly before even being considered for this position.

We had our drivers test yesterday (57 questions long) and EVERY member of the drives team (except the coach who is in charge of creating and grading the test) had to take it. Our team prides itself of knowing the rules. We may not always have the best robot on the field but we will know, understand and follow the rules and not cost our alliance points getting stupid penalties.

[smurfgirl]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

We had our drivers test yesterday (57 questions long) and EVERY member of the drives team (except the coach who is in charge of creating and grading the test) had to take it. Our team prides itself of knowing the rules. We may not always have the best robot on the field but we will know, understand and follow the rules and not cost our alliance points getting stupid penalties.

This is a good mentality- you have to be able to understand the game, and your robot in the context of the game, in order to achieve success. Other teams should consider this.

[nerdrock101]

In all honesty, the competition is specifically meant for the knowledge and experience that is derived from building a robot that works efficiently. Even if it's not the best, it's the process that is the most important part. It seems really saddening to think that the robot isn't as important as the human factor. I hate to entirely denounce the use of payload specialists, but it just doesn't agree with me well.

That being said, my team will still have one lobbing the balls into the trailers. Though, I truly hope that our robot will suffice and do even better than the humans. Also, I really really REALLY love the idea of a rule test. It's a true reminder of what the game is all about.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by PhilBot

My "outing" comment was based on my dislike of posts that just make statements that "imply" the writer knows more than the original poster, without actually helping the original poster to obtain that knowledge.

We all know that there are LOTS of rules and Q&A's and Updates.

Rules and Q&A's might be many, but updates are few. Being prompted to read the Team Updates strikes me as very helpful in obtaining the information being alluded to.

[WhiteShadow1474]

Well i cannot say that our team focuses on the human player element but we did incorporate our design to be able to interacte with the human players. Everything to get that extra edge right?

[tonsoffun2325]

as a payload specialist for team 1742. the payload specialist is a very important person. they are worth 60 points in the game. we used them and we are now on our way to atlanta

[Paul Copioli]

Let me just simply say that if you saw the Midwest regional, our alliance utilized the payload specialist to the fullest. We had an alliance that, in my 9 years of elimination round experience, should not have made it out of the QF. However, we found some way to make even the mighty 111 / 1625 combo shake in their boots and had them on their heels. A money payload specialist, if incorporated into the correct strategy, can change the game in less than 3 seconds and cut the playing field down to 1/2 the size.

This strategy was witnessed by few and not discussed much, but if we would have won the regional many more would be talking about it today.

The payload specialist is the mighty equalizer in this game and any alliance has a chance this year with the right payload specialists.

More than any other year, average robots with great execution of a great strategy can neutralize a great robot with a good strategy.

What we were able to pull off at Midwest has opened my eyes to the possibilities in this year's game.

[mathking]

I have to agree with Paul. At Buckeye there were a number of teams with who had robots that could not gather balls, but they drove their robot well and had good human players. One of them (2387) was ranked in the top 8 most of the way and advanced into the elimination rounds. 2941 had a really nicely balanced, maneuverable machine and played great offensive-defensive driving, pinning other robots and impeding their ball collection. We won a match with them when they kept a robot down in our PS's corner for about 13 or 14 shots. The good human players were able to score at least as much as the good robots. It really made things balanced this year. The great robots couldn't just roll over opponents with technical superiority. Without a good strategy and good human player they were vulnerable to defeat.

The strategy was really important. We noticed this by analyzing our mistakes in the early rounds. There were plenty of matches in which our only goal with the robot was to keep moving and gobble up balls to keep them from opponents. You really have to pay attention to not getting stuck in bad spots.