Rule G36 unclarity

[RandomStyuff]

Our team has a problem with the unclarity of rule G<36>. The robot we have built has a cannon to which the ball has to get to through a tube like elevator (a very shaky description, but I'm not very good at explaining things...)

Now, our problem is that if the game ends while we have a ball inside this tube, we can't get the ball out manually... The problem is that we aren't sure if we are complying with rule G<36> if we make a program-side counter which guarantees that no balls will be in that tube at the end of the game... any help would be appreciated, and thanks in advance!

[MikeDubreuil]

Originally Posted by <G36>

ARENA Reset - ROBOTS must be designed to permit the release and removal of any GAME PIECES and the TRAILER from the ROBOT without being powered up after a MATCH. If a ROBOT violates this rule, the offending TEAM will be warned and requested to modify the ROBOT. If the modification is not made, the ROBOT may not be permitted to compete in future MATCHES.

If at the end of a match, you don't have have any balls that need to be removed you won't have any problems. This is because you will have never received a warning.

However, if you do receive a warning it will be difficult to prove the robot won't repeat this is in subsequent matches. Also, who will confirm that you did indeed make a modification? Also the rule does not say whether the modification must be physical or software. The difference between say, adding a trap door to your tube for ball removal or changing the software. The rule also does not state whether the modification has to be successful

You might want to Q/A this... however, I fear you may not like the GDC's answer.

[Wetzel]

The match ends. The field reset crew needs the balls back, and they need you off the field. You can not power on your robot to remove the balls. You need to be able to get them out fairly quickly (10-20 seconds) so they can verify ball counts for the next match and it can get started. I have no idea what you mean or intend by a program side counter to prevent ball entrapment, but if you are going for that last second shot and power is cut, will the ball still be stuck? If so, you have a problem. Slots in the side of your elevator tube to be able to push the balls up or down and out?

Rule of thumb: If it will slow down match reset more than 20-30 seconds, you are likely to get yelled at.

Wetzel

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by RandomStyuff

Our team has a problem with the unclarity of rule G<36>. The robot we have built has a cannon to which the ball has to get to through a tube like elevator (a very shaky description, but I'm not very good at explaining things...)

Now, our problem is that if the game ends while we have a ball inside this tube, we can't get the ball out manually... The problem is that we aren't sure if we are complying with rule G<36> if we make a program-side counter which guarantees that no balls will be in that tube at the end of the game... any help would be appreciated, and thanks in advance!

I do not believe that a program side counter will fix this issue because if your robot is disabled for any reason during the match it will not clear the balls correctly from your 'tube'.

<G36> is very clear that the balls must be able to be removed from the robot without powering the robot up, regardless of the state it was in at the end of the match.

Looks like you have a little bit of redesign ahead of you.

[Kevin Sevcik]

I agree that if the system is such that it's going to be difficult or impossible to just pull moon rocks out, then you're in trouble and will likely run afoul of <G36> at some point. The solution doesn't have to be terribly complicated, however. As pointed out above, you could design some slots or spaces into the system to remove balls through. If you don't like the idea of that, the next easiest solution is to design the elevator to be back-drivable. Then you just put a hex or square or something on one of the drive shaft ends so you can attach a crank to it and manually crank the elevator until the balls release. Bonus points if it the crank looks like an old style car starting crank and your designated cranker plays the part of a 1900's motorist.

[Joe Ross]

I would be worried about your last minute shot happening right when the cannon is pointed at the head ref. It could definitely be a problem with <S01> as it would be an uncontrolled action

In 2007, there was an inspection item for easy tube access and in 2006 there was an inspection item for easy ball access. I would not be surprised to see the inspectors looking for easy moon rock access this year.

[pfreivald]

Originally Posted by Joe Ross

In 2007, there was an inspection item for easy tube access and in 2006 there was an inspection item for easy ball access. I would not be surprised to see the inspectors looking for easy moon rock access this year.

100% agreed. We put a 'door' on our hopper so that we can remove balls from it as needed. Without such, our design would not be legal.

Patrick

[Elgin Clock]

Throw some holes/slots in the tube to put your hands in to manually feed the balls through to get them out or just put a door on you tube to open & access the balls with.

You need to get them out without powering up your robot.

Once or twice a jam that requires powering up isn't bad, but a consistent wait or lack or your ability to get them out at the end of a match will irritate the refs & possibly incur penalties/warnings.

You don't want that now do you?