No-show teams and trailers

[Elgin Clock]

Originally Posted by The Lucas

Here is a fun twist to the placebo idea: Autonomous Placebo Bot . Its simple just:

1. Just make a kit bot
2. Give it a crazy dead reckoning auto routine that runs for the whole 2:15 match.
3. Hook the no show trailer up to it and GO!

It is not a huge disadvantage because at least the bot moves.
It is not an advantage (incentive to no-show) because they don't get to drive it.
It could be pretty fun. The auto code could be written by someone interesting (Imagine what crazy things Dave might program it to do). Or maybe the other members of the alliance could program it.

With a 40lb spare parts rule this year, a team could litterally make a (albeit small) placebo bot & bring it to competitions to run in case their original bot fails on them.
Could be an interesting interpretation of the rules, & it would save your butt!
(That whole... One team only competing with one robot rule/assumption could be interesting to debate though. )

Or what about a random substitution?
I know I'm asking the match list software to show it's power with that one now, but it could work.
It will be done at mini comps, that's for sure.
We had the little Speed Racer come in & substitute for multiple teams multiple times last year at BattleCry (& Bear Brawl too I think) when the original team couldn't show up.
How much did Speed Racer weigh again? Around 40 lbs???

[Mr. Van]

There will be no-shows - especially on Friday morning. Just think about the bumper rules this year. How many teams (some have already posted this as their plan) are going to say "it seems OK to us, we'll let the Inspectors decide" only to be told that they must correct their bumpers.

For some of these teams (in order to have a completely supported bumper, for example) may have to make MAJOR changes to their chassis. Note if the kit chassis is assembled according to the instructions, it can not pass inspection because of the unsupported corners. How's that going to go over with unsuspecting rookies?

FIRST has always allowed teams that were working on their robot to send out a human player to participate. Previously, it hasn't been so important, but this year, the human player is able to score in exactly the same way a robot can. With Supercells, the star human player is worth potentially 30 points!

The trailer is part of the playing field. Seems to me that if if a robot is not available to tow one, it remains on the field. Any other options lead to craziness - (no show strategies, complaints about replacement 'bot capabilities, etc.)

If the trailer is not on the field, even if you take away the human player, then the three-robot alliance is at a disadvantage (even more so if there are two no-shows).

Just thinkin' about it...

-Mr. Van
Robodox

[lukevanoort]

Couldn't you just place a cap over the unattached trailer and one of the trailers of the other alliance? Then both alliances have the same number of scoring oppurtunities (goals), one just has an extra robot to score with (which happens in 3v2 matches anyway). Not showing up then bcomes a rather useless strategy since nobody can score.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by Elgin Clock

We had the little Speed Racer come in

You didn't see the anti- Speed Racer definition this year? 1519 should be proud of having a section of this year's manual dedicated to last year's efforts.

ROBOT - A FIRST ROBOT is a remotely operated vehicle designed and built by a FIRST Robotic Competition team to perform specific tasks when competing in the 2009 competition “Lunacy.” The ROBOT must include all the basic systems required to be an active participant in the game – power, communications, control, mobility, and actuation. The ROBOT implementation must obviously follow a design approach intended to play the 2009 FRC game (e.g. a box of unassembled parts placed on the field, or a ROBOT designed to play a different game, would not satisfy this definition).

[Nuttyman54]

Originally Posted by Bob Steele

Art makes some interesting points.

I think the simplest thing to do is take any empty trailers off.
Sure you only have two targets for scoring but the other team has only two robots to do scoring. I would have to say though that this would PRECLUDE the other team from using their human player.. So if you don't show up with a robot you don't get to score from your position with a payload specialist. That double hit evens the scoring in my opinion...

In order to make this work you would have to require that the trailer gets removed only if NO member of the team shows up (a true "no show" in the FIRST rules), such that the team would receive a DQ for the match. If you do not, a team simply has to send only their driver to the match (with no robot) and they will get points for the match, which means that a good team playing with bad partners can easily ask their partners to not play, providing a distinct advantage without a largely negative effect on their partners.

[Andy Brockway]

GDC has decided...the trailer stays.

http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=10932

[MrForbes]

If a team fails to send a Robot to the Arena for a match, the Trailer is still placed in the Crater on the Launching Pad, but the tongue will be supported by a placebo hitch.

Robots may interact with the Trailer throughout the match, as deemed appropriate by the game rules.

This will be fun!

[EricH]

Mighty big incentive to show up for matches and help your partners do the same!

Now, what will the placebo hitch look like? I would suspect something simple, but you never know. I don't really care at this point, because it will never have to be used in competition... RIGHT?

[Elgin Clock]

Originally Posted by Andy Brockway

GDC has decided...the trailer stays.

http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=10932

Make a note of that. If you want a question answered, then ask it 9 times on the official FIRST forums, & start a thread that has at least 64 replies here.

'bout time! Good thing I really started paying attention to this thread yesterday & they used a truely simple idea that could have been answered weeks ago.

Could of been a frustrating wait if that wasn't the case... </sarcasm>

[lenny8]

Man i dont know if this is a disadvantage or not. i mean if you complty fill the unmaned trailer you still have to worry about the no super cell rule. so if its not in your gameplan to use a super cell then this rule is sweet but a super cell can win the game so idk what do you guys think?

[MrForbes]

Which of the two robots in your alliance has the task of pushing the no-show trailer away from the other alliance's PS?

[BigWhiteYeti]

If your robot doesn't show up for a match, do you still get hammered by G14 if your alliance manages to double or triple the other alliance?

[lenny8]

Originally Posted by squirrel

Which of the two robots in your alliance has the task of pushing the no-show trailer away from the other alliance's PS?

yea because me and the posible human player this year can make shots from the whole 50 feet better watch out for 1018 with this rule

[Elgin Clock]

Aye... everyone here is making things so difficult! lol

Originally Posted by squirrel

Which of the two robots in your alliance has the task of pushing the no-show trailer away from the other alliance's PS?

Either one. That's now your additional challenge to the game for the last 2 remaining alliance partners - Should have checked with them ahead of time to make sure they were fixed ! (imho)

Originally Posted by BigWhiteYeti

If your robot doesn't show up for a match, do you still get hammered by G14 if your alliance manages to double or triple the other alliance?

If I were to argue one way or another I would say YES.
My reasoning is that if the answer was no, & I knew a team racked up the score, I would intentionally ditch a match so I wouldn't get a penalty.

But that's not very nice, now is it? Leaving your partners left out to dry just because one (or both) tend to double scores, & they are high risk teams!
That's not cool to be able to choose your destiny like that even before you enter the field.

[Brandon Holley]

This was the ruling I expected....it seems to me that the GDC would not "lessen the punishment" for a team if they did not show up by taking the trailer off the field, or by putting a cap on it or something like that.

You better help your teammates are showing up every match, because its going to be terribly difficult to win a 3 v. 2 matchup.


thanks for the update squirrel