Dissemination of Information From FIRST

[Cory]

Seeing this post on Bill's Blog made me wonder why FIRST is using an unofficial channel of communication (that not all teams are monitoring) as a method of communicating fairly important information to teams.

If it's important enough to warrant a post on the matter, it seems to me it ought to be important enough to be released in a team update.

The same with the bumper rules. The GDC seems to think the competition manual is clear enough on the subject, but there are crucial nuggets of information in their Q&A responses that really should be gathered and released into a team update as well, in my opinion

All teams should be keeping tabs on the Q&A, but let's face it, many don't. At least if this stuff was in a team update they really have no excuse for showing up at an event with illegal bumpers that could have been easily fixed if they saw these responses.

[Brandon Holley]

Originally Posted by Cory

Seeing this post on Bill's Blog made me wonder why FIRST is using an unofficial channel of communication (that not all teams are monitoring) as a method of communicating fairly important information to teams.

If it's important enough to warrant a post on the matter, it seems to me it ought to be important enough to be released in a team update.

The same with the bumper rules. The GDC seems to think the competition manual is clear enough on the subject, but there are crucial nuggets of information in their Q&A responses that really should be gathered and released into a team update as well, in my opinion

All teams should be keeping tabs on the Q&A, but let's face it, many don't. At least if this stuff was in a team update they really have no excuse for showing up at an event with illegal bumpers that could have been easily fixed if they saw these responses.

I agree completely Cory. It is becoming obvious that as teams are progressing, not every team is gaining all of the information they should be getting.

I also strongly agree with the motion to have FIRST publish the collective bumper Q&As in a team update.

We work with upwards of 20 teams from around the boston area...most of whom do not monitor chiefdelphi, the Q&A or bills blog...the only information they receive is in the form of official team updates.

[AB755]

Originally Posted by Cory

Seeing this post on Bill's Blog made me wonder why FIRST is using an unofficial channel of communication (that not all teams are monitoring) as a method of communicating fairly important information to teams.

OK, I read the blog, but I really don't see any new information here. This, and the GDC Q&A, just keeps reiterating what is in the Rules & Team Updates.

[Tom Line]

I agree with Cory - and it isn't just Bill's blog.

If you want to keep up-to-date on developements (not just rules updates), you have to monitor chief delphi, bill's blog, the usfirst Q&A, the usfirst Team updates, the usfirst controls forums, First Email blasts, the NI Labview forums, the Labview update site, the WPI update site: I'm going to stop there but you get the idea.

I think First should make a serious effort to consolidate all these sources of information, even if it were to request a special forum on chief delphi which only the First GDC / Bill can post in. You could spend an hour each day digging through each source to see if anything has changed, or if anything interesting has been discovered.

I'd rather be focussing on designing the robot.

[Jared Russell]

Agree completely. There are too many communication channels to monitor right now. And I can certainly think of instances this season where a GDC ruling in a Q&A response has impacted our design despite never being mentioned in a team update.

That said, isn't this something that we as a community can address? Maybe someone could offer up a blog with an RSS feed that disseminates an update any time a new Bill's Blog post, meaningful Q&A rules clarification, email blast, etc. is released?

[RoboMom]

I have to agree with you.
Communication continues to be the hardest thing in FIRST.

NEMO has tried to help with:
FRC 2009: Road Map to Useful Links (PDF: 95K) New!
http://www.firstnemo.org/resources.htm

Look under "Miscellaneous documents"

[Alan Anderson]

Some corners of the Internet (my workplace among them) block access to blogspot.com as a strict and undebatable policy. As a source of important information, I think Bill's Blog is worse than unofficial. To some, it is unavailable.

The problem isn't necessarily that there are too many places. It's that people aren't using the official place to discuss issues that the official experts can answer. The Chief Delphi forums have a great deal of inertia, and getting its participants to act on the existence of the FIRST equivalent isn't going to happen quickly.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

Some corners of the Internet (my workplace among them) block access to blogspot.com as a strict and undebatable policy. As a source of important information, I think Bill's Blog is worse than unofficial. To some, it is unavailable.

The problem isn't necessarily that there are too many places. It's that people aren't using the official place to discuss issues that the official experts can answer. The Chief Delphi forums have a great deal of inertia, and getting its participants to act on the existence of the FIRST equivalent isn't going to happen quickly.

Yup, blocked in our shop. A few times I've asked students to go to it to pull up some information, only to be painfully reminded we have to wait until we go home.

[smurfgirl]

It's also very overwhelming to new members who want to get involved to find out that if they're looking for a particular bit of information, they have to check 8 different sources to find it. While some of us are the type who are going to read everything there is related to FIRST, all the time, knowing that this is necessary to stay on top of all the information can be frustrating and very overwhelming to others. I have seen this push people away from wanting to be involved with strategy, robot design, coaching, etc.

[Jon Stratis]

From what i've seen, Bill's Blog and the Q&A are helpful, but by no means essential. The same goes with a the other available sources of information - helpful, but not necessary.

You can build a robot based solely on the rulebook, official materials (such as the control system documentation) and official team updates, and be just fine. The other resources are available for the occasions where you need clarification of the rules, or need help working with something from the KoP.

That being said, the wide distribution of information is essentially what you see today in industry. If you're designing a machine to build a widget, odds are you'll have to find and obtain information about motors, sensors, gear boxes, and electronics from a wide number of sources. You'll also have a number of internal sources to contend with - marketing, sales, NPP, the engineers that designed the widget, facilities, etc. One of the most frustrating things about starting work at a new company is the severe lack of centralized information to allow you to get your job done. Learning to seek out information and people who can help is a very important skill. When it comes to our work with the robot, either programming or electrical, i generally know everything we need to know for each meeting. But when the students ask me questions, they rarely get a straight answer - It's better that they learn where to go to find their answers instead of relying on me to provide them every time.

[JaneYoung]

If you feel there are problems with the way information is gathered and distributed, develop a better system and suggest it directly to FIRST.

an example: as Jenny stated, NEMO continues to work to find ways to organize information and have it available in a way that makes sense. It is an on-going process.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

If you feel there are problems with the way information is gathered and distributed, develop a better system and suggest it directly to FIRST.

That's the problem... The current system is just like democracy; it's the worst system, except for all the others that have been tried.

I'm not going to propose a system directly, but I'm going to outline some key aspects.

1) Must be made known to all teams. Why? Because Bill's Blog may or may not be known to all teams. CD certainly isn't (we wish it was). The Q&A? Who knows. The only way to get information out to all teams is to use an Email Blast, which is kind of impractical.

2) Must be central. Also known as online. ONE site that isn't blocked much, or can be unblocked by special request, would be preferable. 2-3 at the most.

3) I want to say that you must sign in to access material, but that's going to be hard and I don't think it's a good idea. The reason is so that usage can be tracked. Did team WXYZ check within build season? No? Maybe a nearby team can be contacted to help them. This is also highly impractical.

4) Must link to places to get more information. How many helpful links does CD have? How many times are users referred to a place not on the site?

Maybe one page on the FIRST website, with the Documents and Updates, that lists all the resources available and what they cover; e.g., Control System forum--Control system questions. This too would have its failings; I know I don't read all the documentation! (For example, I don't think I have ever read the Guidelines, Tips, and Good Practices.)

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by EricH

I'm not going to propose a system directly, but I'm going to outline some key aspects.

The post above mine by eagle33199 holds a lot of wisdom and common sense.

And, if this thread was used to gather some in-put/suggestions such as the ones you are mulling over, Eric, that could have positive benefit for the community.

In years past, folks have complained that members of FIRST were not accessible. In my opinion, Bill's Blog is a way of addressing that complaint. It is also another avenue, not the only avenue, for providing information. Chief Delphi is an informal resource and quite frankly, excellent discussion opportunities can often turn into quibbling and useless nattering rather than staying informative and helpful. The Q&A on the FIRST website and the team updates are formal resources and teams should be aware of them. It is true that new teams or teams with poor organizational skillsets can get bogged down and it is great to think of ways to help them. It is also true that teams have to learn to swim on their own at some point. It is always good to think of and develop ways to help the process but in the end, it is up to each mentor to read the manual, the updates, the FIRST website, and to learn about the resources and help direct the team in how to access and use them.

If the resources can not be readily accessed then it is wise to let FIRST know that and what the problems are.

[GaryVoshol]

In the Communications section of the manual (you know, one of those sections no one reads) it mentions Team Updates, Email Blasts and Q&A. They even note that some teams have someone dedicated to keeping track of these sources. Teams are informed if they choose to be informed.

Every year FIRST has evaluations, by written survey or seminars or both, in which teams can give feedback. If you have a better idea about disseminating information, let them know about it.