<G14> - ya win some, ya lose some

[Urban Hawk]

well bob Steele it is possible because what happens if none of the opponents robots work. if that happens there is every chance it could happen

[Rick Wagner]

Originally Posted by Urban Hawk

well bob Steele it is possible because what happens if none of the opponents robots work. if that happens there is every chance it could happen

The three PSs would also have to not show up to have no chance for a score.

[JesseK]

Simply put, if your opponents score zero, it is your fault! Yes, I and others will blame your alliance for your opponents' score, or lack thereof. Pick -- you ...

A.) Didn't help them with their bot to help it work properly
B.) Played a purely defensive game which is, to be honest, boring
C.) Succombed to their <G14> vindictiveness by not scoring in your own trailer(s)
D.) A combination of or all of the above.

Maybe it's just me, and maybe I'm just in one of those moods, but I won't have any sympathy.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Urban Hawk

besides the whole problem that 0 x infinity is equal to 0 and therefore any number greater then 0 can't be a multiplication of 0 because the number needed to get 0 as a multiplication of the score would be undefined and therefore couldn't be done.

correct me if you think i'm wrong

Is it? Wait until you take Calc 1 and get l'Hopital's Rule. Infinity times (or divided by) zero could be a real number, like 1, 2, -2, 100...

Unfortunately, there are only certain conditions in which this holds true, and an FRC competition's scoring isn't one of them.

And, as pointed out, your opponents would have to show up with no robot or PS, which means they didn't show up at all. That's not going to happen. The queuing people are too good at getting at least one robot/PS per alliance out to the field.

[Urban Hawk]

well they don't neccisarly have to show up with no robot. all that needs to have happen is to have the one robot on their side malfunction or break in the game or to have a working robot with its scoring mechanism disabled.

ive been in games in the past where that has happened considering the fact that one year that happened to our robot.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Urban Hawk

well they don't neccisarly have to show up with no robot. all that needs to have happen is to have the one robot on their side malfunction or break in the game or to have a working robot with its scoring mechanism disabled.

ive been in games in the past where that has happened considering the fact that one year that happened to our robot.

If there's a working robot, and it breaks mid-match, it has a PS with it, doesn't it? The PS ought to be able to score at least one shot.

[Urban Hawk]

true however they are aiming at moving targets, with a limited amo supply, and you can never rule out that their shooter might just stink or have bad luck.

some teams may not neccisarly test their shooters out if their normal shooters get sick or they were like us the first year and didn't neccisarly pick on skill but tryed to get everyone a chance to do it.

[artdutra04]

Originally Posted by EricH

Is it? Wait until you take Calc 1 and get l'Hospital's Rule. Infinity times (or divided by) zero could be a real number, like 1, 2, -2, 100...

l'Hospital is where you go if you get injured in France or Quebec.

l'Hôpital is everyone's favorite French mathmatician.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by artdutra04

l'Hospital is where you go if you get injured in France or Quebec.

l'Hôpital is everyone's favorite French mathmatician.

I always saw it spelled the way I had it. Oh, well, editing previous post.

[Lesman]

Honestly, it is in your best interest to boost your opponents score, because the losing alliances score is used to calculate seeds, so it was always in your best interest to score on yourself, this is just the first game that makes it really easy and sensible.

[Tristan Lall]

Originally Posted by artdutra04

l'Hospital is where you go if you get injured in France or Quebec.

l'Hôpital is everyone's favorite French mathmatician.

They're actually equivalent. Hôpital is the current French spelling of the word for hospital. Hospital is an archaic spelling of the same thing. L'Hospital was probably how the mathematician spelled it, back in the day.... (In this case, the "s" is silent in French, so they sound the same.)

[dlavery]

Originally Posted by Urban Hawk

besides the whole problem that 0 x infinity is equal to 0 and therefore any number greater then 0 can't be a multiplication of 0 because the number needed to get 0 as a multiplication of the score would be undefined and therefore couldn't be done.

correct me if you think i'm wrong

I don't care how badly mangled your arithmetic logic may be, I will posit that it just doesn't matter. The entire question is irrelevant and not worth arguing. Why? Because we will never see a zero point score in a regulation match of Lunacy.

This is patently obvious to anyone that has spent more than five minutes really trying to understand the flow of the game. The match starts with all three of the Payload Specialists on the Alliance armed with a minimum of 13 available Moon Rocks and located within 24 inches of an open, static target. They can immediately start pelting the opposing trailer located right in front of them as fast as they are able. Even if the opposing robot and trailer accelerate away as quickly as they are able, a typically competent player will be able to get off four shots before the trailer is even remotely out of range.

All the robots on your alliance don't work? Who cares. All the robots on the opposing alliance are traction-control demons and accelerate twice as fast as every other robot? Who cares. The opposing human players are all retirees from the Harlem Globetrotters and the alliance captain is Meadowlark Lemon? Who cares. The only way you get a zero point score is if all three of your Payload Specialists show up with their arms tied behind their backs, wearing double-blindfolds, and throwing the Moon Rocks with their feet.

How certain am I about this? Well, let me put it this way:

If in the entirety of the 2009 FRC competition season, there is more than one legitimate match (honestly played, in which both alliances are trying to play within the rules and intent of the game, and neither alliance is intentionally avoiding scoring) in which either alliance attains a pre-penalty score of zero (0) points, I will swear off Krispy Kreme donuts for one calendar year.

Yes, I am that certain of it. So can we just stop this whole silly discussion now?

-dave



.

[Bob Steele]

Here here...
I totally agree... my minimum estimate was based on the same thing..
4 shots... 50% accuracy...(which is pretty poor based on our practice to date..)
minimum 2 balls per trailer...12 points ...

In the event that all THREE other teams don't show up...
AND no human players show up at all...

I would like for someone to show me where this has ever happened before..
All three robots for an alliance not showing up...

Thanks Dave...

Let's all get to work on the real challenges of the game...

[EricH]

I agree with Dave. With one exception: I would say that a good soccer player who could aim using his ears could still score.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by Bob Steele

I would like for someone to show me where this has ever happened before..
All three robots for an alliance not showing up...

Not in a competition match, but I recall practice day at the Detroit Regional, Rack-n-Roll. No robot showed up for one of the alliances - and they won anyway, 2-0! (One of the HP's flung a ringer onto the rack.)

I don't think KK needs to have any worry about a significant loss of corporate profits from Dave's wager.

Back to Hawk's mathematical argument, the wording of <G14> is "more than twice" and "more than triple" the opponent's score. Given a wierd fluke that a team manages to defy all odds and does score zero, the other alliance's non-zero score is clearly "more than triple" that zero. Three times zero is zero.

I've been trying to figure how low the lowest scores will be. I too am convinced that most teams will be able to sink at least one or two balls by their PS at the beginning of the match. Add in another couple of lucky shots later in the match, and even an alliance with three robots that can't score should still get a minimum of 10 points.