pic: The Fighting Rednecks

[NorviewsVeteran]

Originally Posted by CraigHickman

...I guess my team might be unfairly stereotyping Dragons. Guess it's time to shift to the 1595 Soap Dishes!

Oh no you don't, you're leaving out all the other fully capable porcelain fixtures in the bathroom!

[Meredith Novak]

After 9-11, the Bomb Squad gave in to political correctness (and a desire not to be run from in public) and went to "BBS." Then we lost Baxter as our sponsor (first B gone)...so we went back to Bomb Squad all spelled out. PC lost out to rejection-of-profanity

FRED - you will always be the Fighting Rednecks to me!

[jgannon]

Karthik, John, et al, I'm not a PC cop by any means, but I think you're missing the point, and making a legitimate conversation into something ridiculous.

I've never really considered the word "redneck" to be a slur; I typically file it alongside "geek"... terms used with pride by those on the inside, and with derision by those on the outside. Objectively, I'll agree that it is difficult to call it a broadly offensive term, and isn't inherently inappropriate as part of a team name.

That being said, even if you ignore the whole idea of rednecks being poor and uneducated, there are very negative connotations that some associate with the term, far darker than the image of a farmer watching NASCAR. For that reason, for the sake of not alienating potential community support, I believe that 2883 is very wise to reconsider.

The Confederate flag is an appropriate analogy. It is embraced as a symbol of cultural identity by a group of people, its meaning has changed over time, but it is still found by others to be offensive because of its history. Free speech is a wonderful and powerful thing, but I would be reluctant to slap a Confederate flag on my robot... not because I'm worried about hurting feelings, but because I'm concerned about how those hurt feelings would affect my team's bottom line. It's a calculated risk; Jeff Foxworthy has made millions off the term, but it is very legitimate to evaluate if you can reap the same payoff with a high school club, and that consideration shouldn't be raising anyone's hackles.

The discussion on loose usage of the word "Nazi" was discussed here two years ago, and the points made there are still valid. You aren't responsible for making sure you don't offend anyone, but you do bear the fruit from the offense you cause.

I know you guys are just trolling about offending wranglers, dragons, or people named Fred, but it's really not that hard to tell the difference in the perceptions of "redneck" compared to those terms, and the potential fallout. There are plenty of other places on the Internet for that kind of nonsense.

[Jared Russell]

Originally Posted by jgannon

You aren't responsible for making sure you don't offend anyone, but you do bear the fruit from the offense you cause.

Exactly. The only sensible measure for offensiveness is your willingness to deal with the reactions of others.

If you can live with a few vocal critics, then name your team whatever you want.

[lenny8]

what i love about this tread is that we are going to the same thing. we now have to change our logo and think about our what we name our robot because people got offend last year because we named our robot the devils child. but we also will change our logo and be more careful about our robot name. but we will not change our team name.

and i really would have loved to see you guys name be the fighting rednecks at least for one regional since thats what you guys really wanted to be named.

[Rich Kressly]

I smiled at the creativity when I first saw this logo. There are many times I also wish the world would not be so overly "PC" at times. However, I also wondered, before any of this discussion started, if a potential line may have been crossed here.

Practically, as a public school teacher for the past 15 years I will tell you that people in my profession get called into meetings for "improper" use of terms/language/images like this. I personally know of situations where employee discipline took place for what the individuals thought were innocent, funny, and well intentioned behavior.

Part of me absolutely understands where some are coming from here, but I've also come to realize from very up close examples that we as individuals don't get to decide what is, or may be, offensive to others.

(I do also wonder about the possible copyright issue here, but that's a separate topic...)

[Jonathan Norris]

Originally Posted by Karthik

I find it quite ironic that we're discussing the appropriateness of names in regards to stereotyping and imagery on a website named ChiefDelphi...

I think Karthik summed up this argument a while ago, if we have all accepted Chief Delphi as our online FIRST home, I can't see how anyone should have an issue with the Fighting Rednecks. I'm sure some of you out there cheer for the Washington Redskins, and many other professional and high school sports teams with names that could be seen as slightly racist/inappropriate.

Honestly guys don't change your name if you don't want to, there are people in FIRST who get a kick out of over-reacting to situations like this. But there are a lot more of us who don't care what your name is. Stop worrying about your name and have fun building your robot.

[ebarker]

At the end of the day, I really don't care if what name is chosen. The team will make their decisions and live with the results, both positive and negative.

Where this runs off the rails for me is dragging all this Chief and wrangler stuff into the discussion.

For years a portrait of Chief Pontiac hung in GM dealerships, but no more. I'm not sure why but I always considered it a tribute to Chief Pontiac, not a racist insult.

I'm from the east coast and don't know any wranglers, but in my eyes hollywood has glorified cowboys and wranglers in general, and demonized rednecks.

Even though I don't agree, if the team wants to tryout their original proposal, go for it. And good luck...

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by jgannon

Karthik, John, et al, I'm not a PC cop by any means, but I think you're missing the point, and making a legitimate conversation into something ridiculous.

I would suggest that you're missing the point by inferring way too much meaning into a harmless joke. At no point was I speaking to the appropriateness of the team name "the fighting rednecks".

Originally Posted by ebarker

Where this runs off the rails for me is dragging all this Chief and wrangler stuff into the discussion.

For years a portrait of Chief Pontiac hung in GM dealerships, but no more. I'm not sure why but I always considered it a tribute to Chief Pontiac, not a racist insult.

Growing up in Canada, where we learn a significant amount of Aboriginal history in the younger grades, we were always taught that terms such as "chief" were completely inappropriate for colloquial use. I'm sure this is just another case of different people perceiving words differently. (Much like what we saw with the varied reactions to the use of the term redneck.)

Originally Posted by jgannon

I know you guys are just trolling about offending wranglers, dragons, or people named Fred, but it's really not that hard to tell the difference in the perceptions of "redneck" compared to those terms, and the potential fallout. There are plenty of other places on the Internet for that kind of nonsense.

Of course it's not hard to tell the difference between the perception of "redneck" vs. "Fred", hence the joke.

Anyways, I guess I need to head to one of those other places on the internet. Sorry to break up everyone's Kumbaya session.

[RobotDevil1985]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

Well, let's explore this just a little further and then I will hush.

If one buys into the vision of helping to change the culture, bringing science and technology and its value/importance to light in our schools and communities - that is a tall order for an FRC team that is interested in building robots and competing. If a school has sports teams and mascots and traditionally promotes those teams, their history, and their value to the community - is that changing the culture or - is that status quo as old as the hills? The names/logos/mission statements and activities that FRC teams brand themselves with can help their communities develop and change or they can help them remain the same, keeping recognition of science and technology in shadow rather than in the light.

Rednecks, I do not mean to pick on you in any way - I am just offering a different perspective and perhaps some food for thought.

Jane

Edit: I was writing while Chris posted. This comment is not about the copyright post.

Our team name is the PsiCotics, and depending on who you talk to the motto is "The mind is a terrible thing to lose/use"

I understand your point that it is a stereo type, but the fact is that the students are having fun while learning. Any college or business that sees FIRST on a resume is going to see a positive thing, regardless of the team name.

[nlknauss]

I've been watching this thread for a few days now go back and forth now with many people in the community providing great contributions. This is something that is tough for all of us to understand because of our separate views on what is "PC".

So, if your team is considering renaming or redeveloping its image I would suggest that you think about what might be marketable on the global market but still have it represent your area. Your team is lucky because you are a rookie team and you have the opportunity to create an image that many of us will come to recognize year in and year out as we see you. So be creative and personalize it so that you can easily market your product where-ever you go. We've all seen names thrown out there that have changed over the years. Remember this is just as much of a designed product as is your robot.

Also, great job posting it to the community. Hopefully your team can take all of these comments back to a meeting to constructively discuss your product.

[AHS1599]

Personally, I think it was a clever logo and team name. There is way too much PC in the world today. I thought this program was about exciting the minds of our youth and having fun while solving problems. There are way too many places where politics will spoil their fun in "real life". Let them have their fun while they still can... IMHO... YMMV...

[ChrisH]

There are many who find the term Redneck a source of identity and pride, there are others who find it a term of hate and derision. I think it largely depends on what part of the country you are from. The farther south and east you go the worse the reaction.

So what is acceptable and innocent in Minnesota might not play well in Georgia, and vice versa. A team that expects to do well is wise to consider the ramifications of taking their name to another part of the country. The nice thing about being here on CD is that you can get reactions from all over, even other countries, and for the most part they will at least be civil. So at least team 2883 is making an informed decision and nobody has been flamed, at least not in public. (not that the moderators would put up with that in any case)

Personally, I am disappointed that I will miss the spectacle of a team with short hair, wearing white t-shirts (flannel if it is cold), and having red paint splashed across the back of their necks. If you are going to use a name like that, the best thing you can do is exagerate it and turn it into a joke.

I don't find the term offensive, but then I am a native of California, where all the loose nuts rolled to. Things are different here than in much of the country.

[katyrobo2177]

after I saw this, it made me laugh really hard because it is so unique and different from a lot of team logos. very creative!! i love it! man i'm to be from minnesota right now

[F.R.E.D. Girl]

Originally Posted by ChrisH

Personally, I am disappointed that I will miss the spectacle of a team with short hair, wearing white t-shirts (flannel if it is cold), and having red paint splashed across the back of their necks. If you are going to use a name like that, the best thing you can do is exagerate it and turn it into a joke.

oh don't worry.. we still plan to dress like our country/hunter selves