No RSL on Digital Sidecar

[shobuda999]

Hi Everyone,

Our team is having a serious problem. our RSL is not lighting up at all. We have ran through the benchtop test, and had everything working wirelessly. We have all the latest Labview updates and have successfully deployed the default code. We have the most recent DS update. When we put our hardware into our robot however we noticed our PWM's aren't getting a signal. After doing some research I realized that our digital side car didn't have the robot status light illuminated at all. We switched it out with the other board in the kit, but we are having the same results. We're beginning to worry that the CRio is dead. All the power lights are on solid green, and we have the board connected to slot four of the CRIO. Has anyone experienced this?

[Alan Anderson]

It's unlikely, but your Digital I/O module or 37-pin cable might be faulty. Try the other cable, and try moving the other Digital I/O module from slot 6 to slot 4.

You said you did the benchtop test. Did the PWM outputs work then? When you say you deployed the "default code", what code are you referring to?

[popo308]

Originally Posted by shobuda999

Our team is having a serious problem. our RSL is not lighting up at all. We have ran through the benchtop test, and had everything working wirelessly. We have all the latest Labview updates and have successfully deployed the default code. We have the most recent DS update. When we put our hardware into our robot however we noticed our PWM's aren't getting a signal. After doing some research I realized that our digital side car didn't have the robot status light illuminated at all. We switched it out with the other board in the kit, but we are having the same results. We're beginning to worry that the CRio is dead. All the power lights are on solid green, and we have the board connected to slot four of the CRIO. Has anyone experienced this?

Originally Posted by shobuda999

All the power lights are on solid green

Are you talking about the lights on the DSC?

if not...
be sure you have the 12v input on the DSC powered. We forgot to do this once and had the same symptoms...

[EricVanWyk]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

It's unlikely, but your Digital I/O module or 37-pin cable might be faulty. Try the other cable, and try moving the other Digital I/O module from slot 6 to slot 4.

I agree with Alan. If the DSC is getting power but the RSL isn't doing _anything_, you probably don't have the cable to the cRIO working as intended.

Double check that it is in there nicely, and if that doesn't help beep it out with a multimeter (or use a known good cable).

There is a safety "enable/disable" line on the cable that will shut down the entire DSC if it is not connected which would result in similar symptoms.

[shobuda999]

All the power lights are working on the DSC, but we still have no RSL. I switched out the cable, we are still having the same issue. Our PWM's did work during the benchtop test. By default code I mean the code that is downloaded when you reimage the CRIO, as well as the basic template from Labview.
Thank you all for your suggestions.

[Alan Anderson]

Grasping at straws here...is the Digital Sidecar connected to the NI module residing in slot 4 of the cRIO?

The control system this year is complex enough that it's difficult to diagnose unobvious problems without seeing all the connections. Can you post pictures of the DSC power lights, the RSL pins, and both ends of the cable to the Digital module in the cRIO?

[falconmaster]

I think there is a manufacturing problem, We helped during Beta testing and the side cars had problems then. We have been using a digital sidecar for four weeks when it all of sudden went bad and no longer works. We are our second one and it is currently working,with no changes in wiring, but for how long? If there is a defect who do we need to bring this to the attention of? We will ordering two more digital sidecars soon.

[Russ Beavis]

Falconmaster,
What issues did you encounter during beta testing? I wasn't aware of any issues being uncovered other than an interference between the case and an unrelated capacitor. We're not aware of any other design issues with the DSC.

Shobuda999,
The fact that BOTH of your Digital Sidecars have the same issue leads me to believe that they're not defective. Of course, it's always statistically possible that you received 2 bad modules. Or maybe they were assembled back-to-back when a surface mount part ran out during pick-and-place?

From what I can tell, other teams' RSLs are working just fine. Is the little green LED on the circuit board lighting up at any time?

http://decibel.ni.com/content/docs/DOC-3120

The module as an overcurrent protection device to keep shorts on the RSL output from getting exciting. You might want to plug your light directly into a protected 12V supply (eg 20A breaker on the PD) and confirm that your light is OK.

Russ

[falconmaster]

Russ

During Beta testing the quality control or manufacturing process required us to send back components to be fixed.

On the digital side cars

One team, Camelback High School, had it working briefly then it went out, no longer functioning and no green light on the power indicator. They swapped it out for their spare, having made no wiring modifications and it is now working.

Another team. Maryvalle High School, their first one was working and then all of a sudden, having done nothing at all, it stopped working, the green power light is on continuously with no blinking. Their second one was then installed and the green light does not come on at all.

Ours, team 842, was working for four weeks and then stopped working for no reason at all. We swapped the second one in having made no wiring changes and it is working fine.

This series of malfunction might not prove that is is defective, but it looks awfully suspicious. We are going to buy two more sidecars for when the next one goes out.

If you can shed any light on this we would be eternally grateful.

[Russ Beavis]

I'd love to get my hands on the faulty sidecars. If you send them back to AndyMark, they may actually get to me or someone else who can dig deeper. The boards aren't really complicated but it's impossible to identify the specific failure without having them in our hands.

Will you be sending them to AndyMark for repair or replacement? Or could you send them to me for failure analysis?

Russ

[eugenebrooks]

A picture of a repeating defect is posted in media.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/32662?

[Russ Beavis]

That's a known issue that, I thought, FIRST had already disclosed to teams. The C6 capacitor is not related to the RSL in any way (unless it works its way over to the circuitry and causes a short through the conformal coating that's on the board to protect it from such issues).

http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread...ight=capacitor

Russ

[MikeDubreuil]

Originally Posted by Russ Beavis

That's a known issue that, I thought, FIRST had already disclosed to teams.

Russ and Eric if you're watching,
The only issue that FIRST has publicly disclosed is the static electricity issue with the Driver Station. As a CD watcher we know of the following issues:
1.) Failing Jaguars (Luminary Micro to their credit is trying to fix the issue and has been generous in replacements)
2.) Several sidecar issues.
A.) The C6.
B.) RSL lights that don't come on.
Yesterday I was working with team 1973. We ran the out of the box test. We had CIM motors responding to joysticks. We did not see the RSL light come on.
C.) My issue with the cRIO default program or the Side Car where the RSL light indicates the robot is enabled, but there is no PWM signal.

On a related note, it would be nice to know how the competition wireless network will work. Will FIRST have everyone change their gaming adapters to connect to a competition SSID?

There's been a lot of issues going on and no official acknoledgement from FIRST on most of them. This leaves teams fending for themselves (but hopefuly coming on these forums for help.) For instance, should falconmaster have to use team money to replace a defective product multiple times?

With that being said, I commend both of you (Russ and Eric) for your dedication to solving these issues on the CD forum. It's people like you who work your tails off that will make this a success.

[Mark McLeod]

Originally Posted by MikeDubreuil

Yesterday I was working with team 1973. We ran the out of the box test. We had CIM motors responding to joysticks. We did not see the RSL light come on.

Just to address this one side note.
The RSL is not part of the OTB code that comes preloaded on the cRIO, so you will not see the RSL during the initial OTB bench tests.

The RSL becomes active only after the cRIO has received it's first Update.

[Russ Beavis]

The current field control system uses virtual LANs to simply re-route packets in an identical fashion to what teams are doing today with either tethered or WiFi operation. FIRST is reserving the right to enable additional layers of security (eg an SSID with WPA key or similar) but the intention is always to make this as seamless as possible for teams to migrate from development to competition. Unfortunately, there isn't a really easy way to pass around secure keys (and keep them secure) but there are ways if needed.

If anyone has a faulty Digital Sidecar (especially such that the RSL doesn't appear to be functional), Eric and I would love to have the opportunity to test it out.

My understanding is that AndyMark is expecting to handle replacements but, of course, we need to be simultaneously sensitive to team $, teams' need to keep running and AndyMark's $ (eg replacing sidecars that simply have a known loose capacitor that doesn't result in any other errors).

As I've written before, I would strongly encourage teams with non-functional sidecars to utilize the FRC Diagnostic Window utility at the following site to test the operation of their module before sending it in for replacement/repair.

http://thinktank.wpi.edu/article/138

Russ