Aluminum angle on bumpers

[MikeDubreuil]

Originally Posted by Tristan Lall

That's a perfect example of two problems with the rules this year.

One: if the angle is optional, why don't the rules say so? (And why haven't the rules been updated, given that this question was first raised weeks ago?)

The problem is with graphic communication. The GDC supplies graphics in the Robot Manual to help describe what they are specifically referring to in certain rules. However, the graphics may contradict other rules. Unfortunately, the graphics can lead readers to conclusions the GDC never intended. Then us mere mortals rely on the Q/A to clear the confusion.

I am assuming in Figure 8-1, you are supposed to infer that the use of aluminum angle is optional because no bumper rule expressly tells you to use aluminum angle.

In Figure 8-2 (I know, beaten to death), you are not supposed to infer anything and simply look at the "OK" corner configurations.

Originally Posted by Tristan Lall

Two: if the Q&A advises something that isn't directly supported by the rules, what do teams do? (And what do you expect the inspectors to do? Assume that a Q&A is as good as a rule change, and make the teams comply with the Q&A?)

The GDC would say they provide clarification, meaning the Q/A responses are direclty supported by the rules. (that sentence may get me in trouble)

For me personally this has been a very tiresome year. The GDC wants a very specific bumper design. Unfortunately, the rules seem to be very non-specific and the graphics are confusing. Some folks around here find it simple and straight forward. They think that anyone who doesn't is either: A.) Trying to advance an illegal robot design, B.) lawyering the rules, C.) a moron; which have led to some viscous personal attacks. Quite frankly I don't pour my seemingly dwindling free time into something that I think is a waste of time. I think the rules discussions are important because it provides a platform for the GDC to understand where our thought process is- how people, who don't know the GDC's intent, interpret the rules.

[MrForbes]

Originally Posted by MikeDubreuil

I am assuming in Figure 8-1, you are supposed to infer that the use of aluminum angle is optional because no bumper rule expressly tells you to use aluminum angle.

Of course the tricky part is knowing just what you are supposed to infer

That's why we have the Q&A, I guess!

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Do your best and the Inspection Team will help, if needed, get you the rest of the way. We have and will be discussing the bumpers on our phone conferences and your inspection team will be up to date on the GDC decisions at each event. With the 18 lb limit, construction should not be a problem. Bowing to the Great Karnack, I will predict that we will see teams with issues using weak fabric, something other than 3/4" plywood backing, hard parts in the corners, and less than rigid fastening systems. And I also predict we will see teams with sections less that 6" long, and no robot structure to back up the bumper.

[Russ Beavis]

To the more experienced teams out there - please consider bringing plenty of extra fabric, aluminum brackets, pool noodles, plywood and "robust fastener systems". Since these can all be unmodified COTS items, you can bring as much as you'd like.

Your robot inspectors and rookie teams (ie your potential alliance partners) will be VERY grateful. There will probably be a LOT of bumper re-building on Thursdays.

Russ

[Mark McLeod]

Originally Posted by Russ Beavis

Since these can all be unmodified COTS items, you can bring as much as you'd like.

Unless you've pre-cut your COTS 4' x 8' sheet of plywood into bumper width strips...
Luckily, I don't believe we'll be anywhere close to our 40 lbs of fabricated parts and can donate some of our weight allowance to these spare bumper parts.

[ChrisH]

Originally Posted by Mark McLeod

Unless you've pre-cut your COTS 4' x 8' sheet of plywood into bumper width strips...
Luckily, I don't believe we'll be anywhere close to our 40 lbs of fabricated parts and can donate some of our weight allowance to these spare bumper parts.

There is a simple solution to that. Leave the pre-cut strips in your vehicle and give them to the other team in the parking lot. Then they become part of the other team's allowance, not yours.

[Bob Steele]

Great idea Chris...
Perhaps a bumper kit.... strips of plywood 5" wide... t- nuts... 1/4 - 20 bolts... fabric of a neutral shade...staple gun and plenty of staples...

Left outside in the van/trailer/car


We will be doing that... enough for at least 3 robots...

perhaps even more plywood strips.... the fabric could be reused..

R

[Russ Beavis]

I recommend that you let your know Lead Robot Inspector know if you've got extra bumper parts available. He/she would appreciate being able to point teams in your direction.

Russ

/edit
And, by the way, THANK YOU VERY MUCH (in advance) for bringing such goodies to your regional!!!
edit/

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by Russ Beavis

I recommend that you let your know Lead Robot Inspector know if you've got extra bumper parts available. He/she would appreciate being able to point teams in your direction.

Russ

/edit
And, by the way, THANK YOU VERY MUCH (in advance) for bringing such goodies to your regional!!!
edit/

Those wouldn't be fabricated bumper parts now, would they?

[AdamHeard]

It's too late this season, but next season maybe we should just QnA the entire manual the day QnA opens.

Either that or boycott the QnA, nothing is illegal until it's asked apparently.

Team 973 is bringing a lot of bumper supplies to regionals, and a lot of premade 6" sections. This is not going in our withholding allowance, we are bringing it. Period. End of story.

Originally Posted by ChrisH

There is a simple solution to that. Leave the pre-cut strips in your vehicle and give them to the other team in the parking lot. Then they become part of the other team's allowance, not yours.

Off Topics, but wouldn't this make it legal to split your robot into 3 40 lb sections, and have it entirely brought in at the regional?

EDIT: Would anyone consider bright freaking orange a nuetral shade?

[Jay H 237]

Originally Posted by MikeDubreuil

The problem is with graphic communication. The GDC supplies graphics in the Robot Manual to help describe what they are specifically referring to in certain rules. However, the graphics may contradict other rules. Unfortunately, the graphics can lead readers to conclusions the GDC never intended. Then us mere mortals rely on the Q/A to clear the confusion.

I am assuming in Figure 8-1, you are supposed to infer that the use of aluminum angle is optional because no bumper rule expressly tells you to use aluminum angle.

In Figure 8-2 (I know, beaten to death), you are not supposed to infer anything and simply look at the "OK" corner configurations.

The GDC would say they provide clarification, meaning the Q/A responses are direclty supported by the rules. (that sentence may get me in trouble)

For me personally this has been a very tiresome year. The GDC wants a very specific bumper design. Unfortunately, the rules seem to be very non-specific and the graphics are confusing. Some folks around here find it simple and straight forward. They think that anyone who doesn't is either: A.) Trying to advance an illegal robot design, B.) lawyering the rules, C.) a moron; which have led to some viscous personal attacks. Quite frankly I don't pour my seemingly dwindling free time into something that I think is a waste of time. I think the rules discussions are important because it provides a platform for the GDC to understand where our thought process is- how people, who don't know the GDC's intent, interpret the rules.

Bingo! Hopefully next year they can clarify the bumper construction, it's hard to be in full compliance when the rules aren't fully clear.

We have our bumpers built with the plywood backing, pool noodles, fabric stapled in place and 3/4" aluminum angle screwed over the fabric where the plywood is. We also have the tee nuts in the plywood for the bolts to fasten the bumpers.

We DO have steel angle pieces that fasten those bumper bolts to the robot frame. Basically the steel angle has bolts on both sides, one to hold the bumpers to them and the other to hold the angle to the robot frame.