Batteries Carried Into Competitions

[Rick]

So that means competitive teams who bring a bunch (8-10) of extra batteries must remove all the leads and reattach them at the competition? Only the competitive teams with the cash to send the extra batteries via a crate are not hindered by this ruling.

Sounds like an exception could have been made just for batteries and the leads attached to them...

[Vikesrock]

As I posted over in the Withholding Allowance thread, I think this is ridiculous.

What I find the most bizarre is that if a battery with leads is a fabricated item then every team that carried more than 1 assembled battery into an event last year or in '07 was illegal.

The definitions of Fabricated Item, Replacement Parts, Spare Parts, and Upgrade Parts are all word-for-word identical between the 3 manuals. Therefore if an assembled spare battery counts against this year's Withholding Allowance it should have count against the 25 lb limit specified in the previous two years.

Originally Posted by 2008 FRC Competition Manual

<R41> Teams may bring a maximum of 25 pounds of custom FABRICATED ITEMS (SPARE PARTS, REPLACEMENT PARTS, and/or UPGRADE PARTS) to each competition event to be used to repair and/or upgrade their ROBOT at the competition site. All other FABRICATED ITEMS to be used on the ROBOT during the competition shall arrive at the competition venue packed in the shipping crate with the ROBOT.

Originally Posted by 2007 FRC Competition Manual

<R31> Teams may bring a maximum of 25 pounds of custom FABRICATED ITEMS (SPARE PARTS, REPLACEMENT PARTS, and/or UPGRADE PARTS) to each competition event to be used to repair and/or upgrade their ROBOT at the competition site. All other FABRICATED ITEMS to be used on the ROBOT during the competition must arrive at the competition venue packed in the shipping crate with the ROBOT.

Also, any teams that shipped these batteries in 2008 or 2009, but left the leads from previous years was/is in violation of rule <R27>.

Originally Posted by 2008 FRC Competition Manual

<R27> Prior to the Kick-off: Before the formal start of the Robot Build Season, teams are encouraged to think as much as they please about their ROBOTS. They may develop prototypes, create proof-of-concept models, and conduct design exercises. Teams may gather all the raw stock materials and COTS COMPONENTS they want. But absolutely no fabrication or assembly of any elements intended for the final ROBOT is permitted prior to the Kick-off presentation.

[Rick]

Vikesrock is right. Even if batteries with leads are in a crate they are illegal. Good catch. Why is it an issue this year if it has been the same for the past 2? I guess it's a common sense thing. Something that didn't really need to be lawyered.

Is this a potential safety issue? Team's rushing on practice day to reattach leads to multiple batteries?

[Brandon Holley]

What I am not understanding about this ruling is making an assembled battery count towards your withholding allowance is something a team can fairly easily overcome.

Bring in wire and anderson connectors/crimps and assemble your batteries thursday morning...that is a pretty simple job for almost anyone on the team to do. Why force us to go through tons of wire and connectors for the simple task of carrying the batteries through a door into the competition?

[Tom Line]

Utterly ridiculous. There's nothing else to be said about it.

Let's hope this is brought to someone higher up and a bit of sanity and common sense is applied to the issue.

[Arefin Bari]

Okay so, I am going to get to the competition, take the connectors off the battery; when I get through the door, I will put them back on. It's only 2 bolts right? I am lost of words.

... Maybe, FIRST should have someone in the pit who is willing to put in those extra 5 mins to put the batteries together (heck, maybe there should be someone who is going to put together all the batteries for all teams attending the regional). I don't know about any other teams; but those 5 minutes me and my kids are going to waste on the batteries are very valuable to us on Thursday when we get to the regional.

[EricVanWyk]

I just hope they have enough spares to cover the teams who mis-wire their battery in the rush and blow out their Jaguars, Victors, Spikes, Analog Breakouts, etc...

[Nuttyman54]

I just don't see the point. There are tons of places where teams are on the honor code, why not just trust that teams haven't modified the batteries, and make them an exception to the withholding allowance. This produces tons of extra work for no foreseeable benefit or purpose.

And we get to do this at every competition....

[Racer26]

Simple answer: the GDC is committing acts of Lunacy with the way THEY'RE lawyering the rules this year.

[johnr]

This is a very bad joke , right?

[Racer26]

My last post was a bad joke. It remains to be seen if the whole battery-without-leads-or-its-not-COTS thing is a bad joke.

[IndySam]

This may be the dumbest ruling in GDC history!

[eugenebrooks]

Come on guys and gals. The GDC has ruled that batteries (alone) don't count against the withholding allowance. If you shipped your batteries and cables in the crate you have to assemble them in the pit, and if you didn't you still have to assemble them in the pit. There isn't anything to complain about on this front. It is a good idea to go over all those connections anyway, there are a lot of loose battery connections at competitions.

In my opinion, a lot of these rules adjustments result from pressing the GDC to clarify, and then clarify some more, instead of just letting common sense guide the interpretation of the rules. I wouldn't accuse the GDC of lawyering. It would appear that teams force them into corners with the constant challenges, and many of the responses are guided by the need to avoid the next corner.

The only rub here is that the unplanned impact of the weight of the cables on the withholding allowance is unfortunate. If you are impacted by this, you can solve the problem with COTS battery cables, they are available from AndyMark. You can also have a team that is way under the allowance bring the battery cables in for you. We would certainly do it for you, and we are way under our allowance because we shipped our entire robot, battery set, and cables in the crate. No doubt someone will worry about the legality of teams helping each other in this manner, and will ask the GDC about it. More power to you...

The most amusing thing about all of this is the fact that batteries and cables don't count towards the weight of the robot!

Eugene

[ZakuAce]

Originally Posted by eugenebrooks

In my opinion, a lot of these rules adjustments result from pressing the GDC to clarify, and then clarify some more, instead of just letting common sense guide the interpretation of the rules. I wouldn't accuse the GDC of lawyering. It would appear that teams force them into corners with the constant challenges, and many of the responses are guided by the need to avoid the next corner.

Completely agree. This is the same reason I always get mad at people asking teachers how long a paper has to be, then whine because they say it is too long. You should not have asked in the first place!

[Craig Roys]

Originally Posted by eugenebrooks

Come on guys and gals. The GDC has ruled that batteries (alone) don't count against the withholding allowance. If you shipped your batteries and cables in the crate you have to assemble them in the pit, and if you didn't you still have to assemble them in the pit. There isn't anything to complain about on this front. It is a good idea to go over all those connections anyway, there are a lot of loose battery connections at competitions.

In my opinion, a lot of these rules adjustments result from pressing the GDC to clarify, and then clarify some more, instead of just letting common sense guide the interpretation of the rules. I wouldn't accuse the GDC of lawyering. It would appear that teams force them into corners with the constant challenges, and many of the responses are guided by the need to avoid the next corner.

The only rub here is that the unplanned impact of the weight of the cables on the withholding allowance is unfortunate. If you are impacted by this, you can solve the problem with COTS battery cables, they are available from AndyMark. You can also have a team that is way under the allowance bring the battery cables in for you. We would certainly do it for you, and we are way under our allowance because we shipped our entire robot, battery set, and cables in the crate. No doubt someone will worry about the legality of teams helping each other in this manner, and will ask the GDC about it. More power to you...

The most amusing thing about all of this is the fact that batteries and cables don't count towards the weight of the robot!

Eugene

That's all fine and dandy, but don't tell us not to lawyer the rules when they turn around and lawyer them themselves (regardless of the reason they are doing it). Especially when its happening now - there are teams getting ready for competition next week and now they have this stupid rule (that has no good reason to exist) to contend with.