Batteries Carried Into Competitions

[Tom Line]

Utterly ridiculous. There's nothing else to be said about it.

Let's hope this is brought to someone higher up and a bit of sanity and common sense is applied to the issue.

[Arefin Bari]

Okay so, I am going to get to the competition, take the connectors off the battery; when I get through the door, I will put them back on. It's only 2 bolts right? I am lost of words.

... Maybe, FIRST should have someone in the pit who is willing to put in those extra 5 mins to put the batteries together (heck, maybe there should be someone who is going to put together all the batteries for all teams attending the regional). I don't know about any other teams; but those 5 minutes me and my kids are going to waste on the batteries are very valuable to us on Thursday when we get to the regional.

[EricVanWyk]

I just hope they have enough spares to cover the teams who mis-wire their battery in the rush and blow out their Jaguars, Victors, Spikes, Analog Breakouts, etc...

[Nuttyman54]

I just don't see the point. There are tons of places where teams are on the honor code, why not just trust that teams haven't modified the batteries, and make them an exception to the withholding allowance. This produces tons of extra work for no foreseeable benefit or purpose.

And we get to do this at every competition....

[Racer26]

Simple answer: the GDC is committing acts of Lunacy with the way THEY'RE lawyering the rules this year.

[johnr]

This is a very bad joke , right?

[Racer26]

My last post was a bad joke. It remains to be seen if the whole battery-without-leads-or-its-not-COTS thing is a bad joke.

[IndySam]

This may be the dumbest ruling in GDC history!

[eugenebrooks]

Come on guys and gals. The GDC has ruled that batteries (alone) don't count against the withholding allowance. If you shipped your batteries and cables in the crate you have to assemble them in the pit, and if you didn't you still have to assemble them in the pit. There isn't anything to complain about on this front. It is a good idea to go over all those connections anyway, there are a lot of loose battery connections at competitions.

In my opinion, a lot of these rules adjustments result from pressing the GDC to clarify, and then clarify some more, instead of just letting common sense guide the interpretation of the rules. I wouldn't accuse the GDC of lawyering. It would appear that teams force them into corners with the constant challenges, and many of the responses are guided by the need to avoid the next corner.

The only rub here is that the unplanned impact of the weight of the cables on the withholding allowance is unfortunate. If you are impacted by this, you can solve the problem with COTS battery cables, they are available from AndyMark. You can also have a team that is way under the allowance bring the battery cables in for you. We would certainly do it for you, and we are way under our allowance because we shipped our entire robot, battery set, and cables in the crate. No doubt someone will worry about the legality of teams helping each other in this manner, and will ask the GDC about it. More power to you...

The most amusing thing about all of this is the fact that batteries and cables don't count towards the weight of the robot!

Eugene

[ZakuAce]

Originally Posted by eugenebrooks

In my opinion, a lot of these rules adjustments result from pressing the GDC to clarify, and then clarify some more, instead of just letting common sense guide the interpretation of the rules. I wouldn't accuse the GDC of lawyering. It would appear that teams force them into corners with the constant challenges, and many of the responses are guided by the need to avoid the next corner.

Completely agree. This is the same reason I always get mad at people asking teachers how long a paper has to be, then whine because they say it is too long. You should not have asked in the first place!

[Craig Roys]

Originally Posted by eugenebrooks

Come on guys and gals. The GDC has ruled that batteries (alone) don't count against the withholding allowance. If you shipped your batteries and cables in the crate you have to assemble them in the pit, and if you didn't you still have to assemble them in the pit. There isn't anything to complain about on this front. It is a good idea to go over all those connections anyway, there are a lot of loose battery connections at competitions.

In my opinion, a lot of these rules adjustments result from pressing the GDC to clarify, and then clarify some more, instead of just letting common sense guide the interpretation of the rules. I wouldn't accuse the GDC of lawyering. It would appear that teams force them into corners with the constant challenges, and many of the responses are guided by the need to avoid the next corner.

The only rub here is that the unplanned impact of the weight of the cables on the withholding allowance is unfortunate. If you are impacted by this, you can solve the problem with COTS battery cables, they are available from AndyMark. You can also have a team that is way under the allowance bring the battery cables in for you. We would certainly do it for you, and we are way under our allowance because we shipped our entire robot, battery set, and cables in the crate. No doubt someone will worry about the legality of teams helping each other in this manner, and will ask the GDC about it. More power to you...

The most amusing thing about all of this is the fact that batteries and cables don't count towards the weight of the robot!

Eugene

That's all fine and dandy, but don't tell us not to lawyer the rules when they turn around and lawyer them themselves (regardless of the reason they are doing it). Especially when its happening now - there are teams getting ready for competition next week and now they have this stupid rule (that has no good reason to exist) to contend with.

[Bharat Nain]

Originally Posted by eugenebrooks

Come on guys and gals. The GDC has ruled that batteries (alone) don't count against the withholding allowance. If you shipped your batteries and cables in the crate you have to assemble them in the pit, and if you didn't you still have to assemble them in the pit. There isn't anything to complain about on this front. It is a good idea to go over all those connections anyway, there are a lot of loose battery connections at competitions.

What if you spent a few days making sure every one of your batteries is done correctly? This ruling is absurd.

[Mike Soukup]

Originally Posted by eugenebrooks

In my opinion, a lot of these rules adjustments result from pressing the GDC to clarify, and then clarify some more, instead of just letting common sense guide the interpretation of the rules. I wouldn't accuse the GDC of lawyering. It would appear that teams force them into corners with the constant challenges, and many of the responses are guided by the need to avoid the next corner.

Considering that the Q&A is meant to clarify rules, not create them, the ruling that batteries with cables are non-COTS has always existed, so if we used our common sense to infer that batteries with cables were COTS we were unknowingly breaking the existing rules. The questions that teams have asked building up to this ruling have been attempts to clarify that our original common sense understanding was indeed correct and there were inconsistencies with the Q&A's responses, not the other way around.

Originally Posted by eugenebrooks

You can also have a team that is way under the allowance bring the battery cables in for you. We would certainly do it for you, and we are way under our allowance because we shipped our entire robot, battery set, and cables in the crate. No doubt someone will worry about the legality of teams helping each other in this manner, and will ask the GDC about it. More power to you...

I don't understand how this could be legal. If it were, three teams could bring in three separate parts of a new robot, bolt it together, then have one team compete with it. My common sense tells me that's not what the withholding allowance is for. Since your common sense tells you one thing & my common sense tells you another, it looks like we need a clarification.

[IndySam]

Originally Posted by Mike Soukup

Considering that the Q&A is meant to clarify rules, not create them, the ruling that batteries with cables are non-COTS has always existed, so if we used our common sense to infer that batteries with cables were COTS we were unknowingly breaking the existing rules. The questions that teams have asked building up to this ruling have been attempts to clarify that our original common sense understanding was indeed correct and there were inconsistencies with the Q&A's responses, not the other way around.

The GDC doesn't just interpret the rules they write them. They could easily say that this is the letter of rule but it will be changed in the next update.

What they have ruled is totally insane.

[GUI]

What they have ruled is reasonably logical given that the Q&A is solely for clarification of rules, and as the rules stand a battery with cables attached is a modified COTS item. There is nothing to say that there won't be a team update excluding batteries from the withholding weight. If the GDC doesn't limit itself to only interpreting rules in the Q&A, and leaving changes for team updates then the whole system breaks down. The various channels have their purposes, and the Q&A's is to clarify existing rules.