Batteries Carried Into Competitions

[The Lucas]

Originally Posted by Craig Roys

There is no advantage - it is a waste of time to disconnect batteries just to walk in the door and reconnect them - the ruling is asinine and needs to be corrected.

Originally Posted by Bob Steele

If you purchased the battery connector from Andymark
http://andymark.biz/am-0009.html
You could then consider this COTS... and an unlimited number could come in.

You are correct that if someone sold the battery and connector together AND you purchased them... they could be considered COTS...

Correction: it is a waste of time to disconnect batteries just to walk in the door, weight the disconnected leads as part of the 40lb limit, and reconnect them.
(Note, I am not sure if there will or will not be weighing of the 40lbs allowance, Bills Blog says "weighed if necessary")

If you attached lugs to your batteries (which you probably did, unless you bought them COTS from AndyMark) they could be considered a FABRICATED ITEM and thus subject to the weight limit. Those 6 gauge wires weight enough that they could push you over the limit if you are not careful.

I also wonder if old batteries (not MK ES17-12) are subject to this ruling? They are legal to use in practice matches (could be useful if you are still attaching leads to the other batteries) and the pit but not in the actual competition.

It just doesn't make sense to me to include batteries in any weight limit if they are excluded from the 120lbs robot weight limit . I think bumpers should be excluded too (but they are not).

[Al Skierkiewicz]

I have to interject a word of caution here. Don't read into this it is simply a word of caution. IF the GDC does not make a change in this interpretation, then most teams will be sitting outside in the cold, cutting away carefully applied heatshrink and electrical tape used to insulate the battery terminals. Then they will be dropping tools on the exposed terminals, carrying the batteries against the conductive metal of their zippers and dangling chains around their necks or bumping into conductive parts on the people, backpacks and coats in front of them. Eager freshmen will tire of holding the battery while waiting patiently for the pits to open and in colder areas will not be able to grip the battery with gloves and drop it on themselves or others. Please keep in mind that the battery is 12 pounds and dropped from a distance of a few feet, can easily break toes and might damage the case to the point of leakage. Please also be aware that the battery is a 7200 watt device capable of 600+ amps and in the case of exposed terminals, can weld tools, chains and other metals. If you will be removing your battery cables to comply with this rule, be aware of the dangers. Plan accordingly when faced with this added hazard to minimize injury at your venue. Don't take short cuts in safety even though it is only for a few minutes.

[Zflash]

Very wise Al, thanks for the words of caution I know that we will benifit from them. Ecspecially since we will be attending the Buckeye regional which will be one of the cold regions that you are speaking of.

[wilsonmw04]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

I have to interject a word of caution here. Don't read into this it is simply a word of caution. IF the GDC does not make a change in this interpretation, then most teams will be sitting outside in the cold, cutting away carefully applied heatshrink and electrical tape used to insulate the battery terminals. Then they will be dropping tools on the exposed terminals, carrying the batteries against the conductive metal of their zippers and dangling chains around their necks or bumping into conductive parts on the people, backpacks and coats in front of them. Eager freshmen will tire of holding the battery while waiting patiently for the pits to open and in colder areas will not be able to grip the battery with gloves and drop it on themselves or others. Please keep in mind that the battery is 12 pounds and dropped from a distance of a few feet, can easily break toes and might damage the case to the point of leakage. Please also be aware that the battery is a 7200 watt device capable of 600+ amps and in the case of exposed terminals, can weld tools, chains and other metals. If you will be removing your battery cables to comply with this rule, be aware of the dangers. Plan accordingly when faced with this added hazard to minimize injury at your venue. Don't take short cuts in safety even though it is only for a few minutes.

So, this is what I'm reading: the rule is not only asinine, but dangerous?

[Zflash]

Originally Posted by wilsonmw04

So, this is what I'm reading: the rule is not only asinine, but dangerous?

What Al is pointing out is that it can b dangerous if teams do not excercise caution while they are trying to stay legal. Just don't make the Freshman be the only ones holding and working with the batteries take turns and come prepared.

[Ian Curtis]

Originally Posted by wilsonmw04

So, this is what I'm reading: the rule is not only asinine, but dangerous?

Potentially. But is it the safest thing in the world to have a verifiable army of teenagers and adults cram themselves into a 10'x10' space with robots that can launch trackballs over 6 foot overpasses, vomit squads of foam basketballs 20 feet and move 150 lbs of stuff at 17 fps? Probably not. Of course, making a potentially dangerous situation more hazardous is not very smart.

I understand that this issue is different (Although I too think unattaching our leads outside the door and reattaching them after crossing the threshold is one of the silliest things in the world), but I doubt anyone will come to serious harm. I'd be much more worried about robots that loose power on the field due to faulty connections. That drags everyone down, both on the team and in the stands.

[Alex Golec]

Sometimes, I lose all respect for the GDC. Remember when we had to ship 2 batteries in the crate because of a dumb rule, causing many teams to go over the 400 lb limit and costing hundreds of dollars in unnecessary shipping?

This year we have yet another black sheep: Hundreds of exposed leads, hundreds of hours wasted, hundreds of students having to be miserable all so the GDC can be content with their rules? It's a trend, but I don't understand why it has to exist. Does the GDC have an ego problem? Do their stomachs wretch at the phrase "we made a mistake?"

GDC, I respect your work. I love the ideas and consideration that go into making a new game every year. But you are not perfect.

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by Alex469

GDC, I respect your work. I love the ideas and consideration that go into making a new game every year. But you are not perfect.

I'd be highly surprised if any member of the committee thought they were.

It seems like this thread has more or less said all there really is to say. We're now aware of the GDC's current interpretation of the rules, and (for the Understatement of the Week) I think there's a feeling of the general consensus of ChiefDelphi users. I'd also note that this thread was started on Friday morning; I doubt that the discussion that has taken place here could've hit the radar of any of the appropriate people, let alone a solution implemented, before last Friday's update went to press.

Perhaps it'd be best to give this thread the weekend off and only resume our collective howling/grumbling/offers-of-hugs-and-screwdrivers-to-Week-1-teams if the next Team Update (that'd be #15, for those playing at home) doesn't offer some kind of amicable resolution or guidance? It'll be cutting it close for the Week 1 set, yes, but there's not much that can be done in the meantime besides entering the caption contest or finalizing some Fantasy FIRST picks. (Or, you know, sleep.)

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Thanks for listening...
http://www.usfirst.org/uploadedFiles...pdate%2015.pdf