Go to Post We don't tell new mentors about the Mentor VIP Adults Only Lounge, you'll get your key if we approve. We have leather couches, flat screens, and free corndogs in there. - Monochron [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > FIRST > General Forum
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 22-02-2009, 02:13
smurfgirl smurfgirl is offline
Still a New Englander on the inside
AKA: Ellen McIsaac
FRC #5012 (Gryffingear)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Palmdale, CA
Posts: 1,725
smurfgirl has a reputation beyond reputesmurfgirl has a reputation beyond reputesmurfgirl has a reputation beyond reputesmurfgirl has a reputation beyond reputesmurfgirl has a reputation beyond reputesmurfgirl has a reputation beyond reputesmurfgirl has a reputation beyond reputesmurfgirl has a reputation beyond reputesmurfgirl has a reputation beyond reputesmurfgirl has a reputation beyond reputesmurfgirl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Look at the Big Picture

The more time I am involved in first, the more I realize this is a recurring trend. Every year around this time in the season, there are lots of overly harsh and whiny posts, and then someone makes a thread about it to remind people that FIRST is run by volunteers, and that Chief Delphi is normally a wonderful place because it's users don't act like this (and usually this helps keep people in check for a bit.) I think everyone's tired after six plus weeks of hard work and crunch time, but this is no excuse. People should remember to think about what they're saying an extra time before they hit post during this time of year. Also, we should all remember to thank everyone who has volunteered their time to make FIRST as awesome as it is.
__________________
Ellen McIsaac
Team 1124 ÜberBots 2005-2015
Team 5012 Gryffingear 2015+
Reply With Quote
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 22-02-2009, 02:27
JackN JackN is offline
Registered User
AKA: Jack Nowakowski
no team
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Lansing
Posts: 1,249
JackN has a reputation beyond reputeJackN has a reputation beyond reputeJackN has a reputation beyond reputeJackN has a reputation beyond reputeJackN has a reputation beyond reputeJackN has a reputation beyond reputeJackN has a reputation beyond reputeJackN has a reputation beyond reputeJackN has a reputation beyond reputeJackN has a reputation beyond reputeJackN has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Look at the Big Picture

It seems every year something FIRST does causes normally rational people to lose their mind and post things like "OMG FIRST HAS LOST THEIR MIND THEY ARE KILLING FUN!!!!!!!!". This will continue until the end of time or the end of Chief Delphi. I know I have gotten fired up about rules that i disagreed with in the past. Sometimes people need to think before they post. Every year FIRST comes up with a new game with rules that are completely different. They are continually trying to improve everyone's experience. Look at some of the great changes this year, the withholding allowance, the Michigan district structure, and many more. Some times people need to step back and take a breath before pressing the submit reply button.

P.S. I bet we have a similar discussion next year
__________________
2005-2007 Team 494 (Lead Scout and Strategist)
2008 Team 70 (Drive Coach)
2009-2011 Team 1504 (College Mentor)
Reply With Quote
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 22-02-2009, 02:32
Kyle Love's Avatar
Kyle Love Kyle Love is offline
Support STEM Education
FRC #3301 (Jay County Robotics)
Team Role: Teacher
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Portland, IN
Posts: 3,072
Kyle Love has a reputation beyond reputeKyle Love has a reputation beyond reputeKyle Love has a reputation beyond reputeKyle Love has a reputation beyond reputeKyle Love has a reputation beyond reputeKyle Love has a reputation beyond reputeKyle Love has a reputation beyond reputeKyle Love has a reputation beyond reputeKyle Love has a reputation beyond reputeKyle Love has a reputation beyond reputeKyle Love has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Look at the Big Picture

I find your original post to be very one sided and bias towards FIRST (which is expected here). I know it's in your own opinion and I can respect that. I don't quite understand why this thread needs to exist, we are all tired, irritated and not in the best of moods after the long build. Everyone needs to just chill out for a couple weeks. I do get the main meaning from the original post, but I know this will cause a big stir amongst the CD community.
__________________

Kyle Love
Teams I've been on:
Team 45 - The TechnoKats - Student/Leader/Driver 2004-2007
Team 1646 - Boiler Precision Guessworks - Mentor 2007-2011
Team 3301 - Jay County Robotics - Teacher 2011-Present

Reply With Quote
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 22-02-2009, 02:39
Lil' Lavery Lil' Lavery is offline
TSIMFD
AKA: Sean Lavery
FRC #1712 (DAWGMA)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 6,589
Lil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Lil' Lavery
Re: Look at the Big Picture

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle Love View Post
I find your original post to be very one sided and bias towards FIRST (which is expected here). I know it's in your own opinion and I can respect that. I don't quite understand why this thread needs to exist, we are all tired, irritated and not in the best of moods after the long build. Everyone needs to just chill out for a couple weeks. I do get the main meaning from the original post, but I know this will cause a big stir amongst the CD community.
I'm a little surprised by this post. I thought I justified my post pretty well, even with a specific reference to the issues that drove me to create it.

In case it wasn't clear enough, I'll try and say it in a different manner.

This is essentially a reminder that everyone in FIRST is human, and that they will react to what you write. Yes, sometimes you will disagree with what FIRST decides. But when you voice your disagreement, do so in a constructive and gracious manner. And keep in mind, it can be much worse.

As for my bias towards FIRST. Ask some of the people who talk to me outside of CD about any "bias towards FIRST" I may have. But in terms of rule writing, they do a much better job than most other competitions I have been involved with and seen. But as will all things, experiences may vary. Perhaps you have competitions that you are in that have outstanding rules, and if so, please share with the rest of us.
__________________
Being correct doesn't mean you don't have to explain yourself.
Reply With Quote
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 22-02-2009, 02:55
eugenebrooks eugenebrooks is offline
Team Role: Engineer
AKA: Dr. Brooks
no team (WRRF)
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 601
eugenebrooks has a reputation beyond reputeeugenebrooks has a reputation beyond reputeeugenebrooks has a reputation beyond reputeeugenebrooks has a reputation beyond reputeeugenebrooks has a reputation beyond reputeeugenebrooks has a reputation beyond reputeeugenebrooks has a reputation beyond reputeeugenebrooks has a reputation beyond reputeeugenebrooks has a reputation beyond reputeeugenebrooks has a reputation beyond reputeeugenebrooks has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Look at the Big Picture

I am going to have to back you up on this one, Sean.

The battery fracas, and then shredding the posts of anyone
who tried to project some reason into the discussion, was
among the worst displays of posting behavior I have
seen on CD, notwithstanding some of the other fine examples
that I won't point out for anyone to go read.

Lets get a grip guys and gals, but shred this if you will.

I still stand on my offer to carry the battery cables in for
any team that is over their 40 pound limit at San Jose.
If this is ruled illegal, drop by the Team 1280 pit and
we help you make replacement cables.

Lets stop the post shredding and go have some fun!

Eugene
Reply With Quote
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 22-02-2009, 03:24
EricH's Avatar
EricH EricH is offline
New year, new team
FRC #1197 (Torbots)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: SoCal
Posts: 19,726
EricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Look at the Big Picture

Sean, I know kind of what you've been through with ASME. I compete in the SAE Collegiate Design Series, specifically the Aero Design Competition.

There, the 60 pages or so of rules are pretty clear. (No comment on the number of questions that could be answered by simply reading the rules. Ratio is probably much higher than here.) However, this year, for the annual rule change, the rule changed was: No carbon fiber or fiberglass. Several teams went for basalt fiber as an alternative. After a few months, a team that was making sure that basalt was in fact legal managed to get clarification on what counted as fiberglass. Basalt counted. Teams had already made parts out of basalt and had to redesign.

Here, in FRC, the rulebook is what, twice that length? There are really only two--now three--rules that have people scratching their heads/annoyed. The bumper rule, <G14> (mainly for the reasoning behind that), and now the ruling that a battery with leads isn't exempt from the withholding allowance are the rules that are most annoying/least clear.

Could FIRST have done better? Possibly. 8-10 people with inside knowledge of intent can't fully anticipate 15,000+ people without that knowledge, though. No matter how hard they try, they can't make the rules completely, 100% clear for the large group. That's why Q&A exists. In effect, ALL of the FRC teams that post questions are GDC advisers. They tell the GDC, through questions, what isn't clear. The GDC then has a chance to make their intent clear, and change/clarify the rules accordingly.

Will they learn from this? Probably. We can expect that they won't make the same "mistakes", if such the annoying rules are, again. They may even fix the one they can before competition. Remember, they're human. Humans have a tendency to learn. In fact, it's often the case that a "failure" is a bigger learning experience than a success.

Let's all take the rest of the weekend off. Chill out. Come back Monday or Tuesday and talk a bit more.

(BTW, this post is written by someone who is under some minor stress due to having 4 R/C planes to complete in 11 days, plus making their payload plates and the molds for said plates. And no, the planes aren't close to done. Maybe 50%.)
__________________
Past teams:
2003-2007: FRC0330 BeachBots
2008: FRC1135 Shmoebotics
2012: FRC4046 Schroedinger's Dragons

"Rockets are tricky..."--Elon Musk


Last edited by EricH : 22-02-2009 at 03:32.
Reply With Quote
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 22-02-2009, 05:59
waialua359's Avatar
waialua359 waialua359 is offline
Mentor
AKA: Glenn
FRC #0359 (Hawaiian Kids)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Waialua, HI
Posts: 3,296
waialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Look at the Big Picture

hehe.....the mandatory batteries in the past being shipped in the crate is the least of our worries. Our crate, cart and robot weighs 360 pounds BEFORE packing tools, spare parts, and everything else.
This year we went light. A manini-sized 691 pounds total as opposed to 1000+ in the past.
Why so much?

For all of you that attend local events or drive to a nearby state, lucky that you can bring everthing else to the event separately.

Our Hawaii regional event would be an advantage for us, if we didnt attend a mainland regional first.
__________________

2016 Hawaii Regional #1 seed, IDesign, Safety Award
2016 NY Tech Valley Regional Champions, #1 seed, Innovation in Controls Award
2016 Lake Superior Regional Champions, #1 seed, Quality Award, Dean's List
2015 FRC Worlds-Carver Division Champions
2015 Hawaii Regional Champions, #1 seed.
2015 Australia Regional Champions, #2 seed, Engineering Excellence Award
2015 Inland Empire Regional Champions, #1 seed, Industrial Design Award
2014 OZARK Mountain Brawl Champions, #1 seed.
2014 Hawaii Regional Champions, #1 seed, UL Safety Award
2014 Dallas Regional Champions, #1 seed, Engineering Excellence Award
2014 Northern Lights Regional Champions, #1 seed, Entrepreneurship Award
2013 Championship Dean's List Winner
2013 Utah Regional Champion, #1 seed, KP&B Award, Deans List
2013 Boilermaker Regional Champion, #1 seed, Motorola Quality Award
2012 Lone Star Regional Champion, #1 seed, Motorola Quality Award
2012 Hawaii Regional Champions #1 seed, Motorola Quality Award
Reply With Quote
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 22-02-2009, 06:58
GaryVoshol's Avatar
GaryVoshol GaryVoshol is offline
Cogito ergo arbitro
no team
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Royal Oak, MI
Posts: 5,726
GaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Look at the Big Picture

As I posted elsewhere, the GDC really does a pretty good job. Of the literally hundreds of rules and definitions, how many of them are we stressed about? A half dozen?

Just as your robot is never done because it's not perfect, the rules are never perfect. That doesn't mean the GDC shouldn't strive for perfection. Part of moving toward that goal is valid constructive criticism. Things will get overlooked in the design process, whether robot or rules. Things will have to be corrected. Things will have to be pointed out when they are adversely affecting teams, especially late in the season.

Every year we have some sort of rules floo-fla. The most complaints come from flip-flops, when things that were ruled legal a week after kickoff were ruled illegal after ship, or when things that were illegal in W1 events were made legal for W3. This battery thing impresses most people as a flip-flop, because it goes against previous practice - even if the rules are the same as in previous years, they didn't seem to be enforced or mentioned then.

I've worked on rules committees, and there are two extremes of going about it. You can make the rules general, and then have those enforcing the rules make all the interpretations needed. Or you can make the rules very specific and restrictive leaving no room for interpretation.

The first is good if everyone doing the official interpretation - referees, judges, inspectors, etc - are on the same wavelength. But we've seen cases in the past where an interpretation was made, misconstrued by people hearing that interpretation, and there was great debate and consternation. It can lead to inconsistancy. The OCCRA rules committee generally follows this path, but it works because the same group of people write the rules, interpret and answer questions on the rules, and enforce the rules as inspectors and referees.

The restrictive method is often used in government regulations, insurance, other highly-bureaucratic organizations. Rules can't be fixed, even when the results of a rule are unfair.

FRC attempts to take a partial middle path, and sometimes veers too far to one side or the other for some people's tastes. They attempt to allow some interpretation by giving guidance to those who will be making the interpretations - e.g. inspector and referee training, testing and conference calls. But there is also the place for the GDC to make definitive rulings, even if people don't like those rulings.

We don't excuse the GDC because "they're doing the best they can." But at the same time, we should not harshly criticise the GDC, because "they are doing the best they can." I firmly believe that - those committee members I have met, even briefly, certainly have a passion for what they are doing and want to give teams and students the best possible experiences.
__________________
(since 2004)
Reply With Quote
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 22-02-2009, 10:54
JohnBoucher JohnBoucher is offline
Blue Shirt
FRC #0237
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Watertown, CT
Posts: 2,927
JohnBoucher has a reputation beyond reputeJohnBoucher has a reputation beyond reputeJohnBoucher has a reputation beyond reputeJohnBoucher has a reputation beyond reputeJohnBoucher has a reputation beyond reputeJohnBoucher has a reputation beyond reputeJohnBoucher has a reputation beyond reputeJohnBoucher has a reputation beyond reputeJohnBoucher has a reputation beyond reputeJohnBoucher has a reputation beyond reputeJohnBoucher has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Look at the Big Picture

The big picture is that FIRST is a program to promote engineering and technology as career choices for high school students.

Think back to when you were starting out on a team. Remember the excitement you felt. Do you have that excitement on your team now? This is about getting students thinking and interested in career choices, about changing the way we collaborate with others.

Is this is going on now? Do you see that excitement?

Try running a team. You need to keep everyone happy. You need to attract talent onto the team and you need to keep your older students excited. Have an honest talk with your team leaders about what they have to do and why they do it. Ask them what their big picture is. Share with them what your big picture is. Is everyone on the same page?

Let's get the excitement back. How do we do that?
Reply With Quote
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 22-02-2009, 10:59
Alex Cormier's Avatar
Alex Cormier Alex Cormier is offline
www.TwoPencilDesigns.com
AKA: Grizz, Twinkletoes, PitBull1126
FRC #1405
Team Role: Coach
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 5,580
Alex Cormier has a reputation beyond reputeAlex Cormier has a reputation beyond reputeAlex Cormier has a reputation beyond reputeAlex Cormier has a reputation beyond reputeAlex Cormier has a reputation beyond reputeAlex Cormier has a reputation beyond reputeAlex Cormier has a reputation beyond reputeAlex Cormier has a reputation beyond reputeAlex Cormier has a reputation beyond reputeAlex Cormier has a reputation beyond reputeAlex Cormier has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Look at the Big Picture

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBoucher View Post
The big picture is that FIRST is a program to promote engineering and technology as career choices for high school students.

Think back to when you were starting out on a team. Remember the excitement you felt. Do you have that excitement on your team now? This is about getting students thinking and interested in career choices, about changing the way we collaborate with others.

Is this is going on now? Do you see that excitement?

Try running a team. You need to keep everyone happy. You need to attract talent onto the team and you need to keep your older students excited. Have an honest talk with your team leaders about what they have to do and why they do it. Ask them what their big picture is. Share with them what your big picture is. Is everyone on the same page?

Let's get the excitement back. How do we do that?
There was a huge problem with those factors this year amongst a few teams here in Rochester. I heard from several teams that the kids were not as excited and willing as previous years. This is not from just one team with a lot of money, but form a team with little money, a team with a lot of mentors, and such. I can't nail it to one specific reason why so many teams didn't have the push like previous years, but it's different. Maybe we need some changes next year?
__________________

Two Pencil Designs - Vinyl Graphics, Bumper Numbers, and Strategy Items!
Like us on Facebook & follow us on Twitter
Facebook.com/TwoPencilDesigns & TwoPencilDesign
Reply With Quote
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 22-02-2009, 11:59
thefro526's Avatar
thefro526 thefro526 is offline
Mentor for Hire.
AKA: Dustin Benedict
no team (EWCP, MAR, FRC 708)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 2,599
thefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to thefro526 Send a message via MSN to thefro526
Re: Look at the Big Picture

I think Sean's post was made at the perfect time.

I feel that this year has more complaining then any other that I can remember (G22 from '08 does not count ). I was surprised at all of the complaining about various rules this year. Of course every game is going to have the rule that every one hates (G22 from '08) but this year people complained about everything.

Yes, the bumper rules are strict - Yes, it'd be nice to be able to leave the starting envelope - Yes, it'd be nice to carry in our batteries and plug them in the instant we get in our pits, but so what? Rules are rules. There's no point in complaining about things you can't change, and if you feel like you can change them then complain to the right people.

Remember, CD is not an official source of Info from FIRST. Anything said here is not official and anything said here probably won't reach the people it needs to reach. So if you want to change something talk to the people in power, don't clutter up this site with pointless complaining.

And I think John and Alex are on to something. For some reason students just aren't as excited about this year as they were before. I don't know what it is but there just seems to be some underlying negativity in the air lately. I know on my team we have gone through a radical change in the last few months and that may be where some of it stems from but it seems to be FIRST wide...

(And I know I'm not perfect, I have been know to complain about a rule or three.)
__________________
-Dustin Benedict
2005-2012 - Student & Mentor FRC 816
2012-2014 - Technical Mentor, 2014 Drive Coach FRC 341
Current - Mentor FRC 2729, FRC 708
Reply With Quote
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 22-02-2009, 12:54
pitzoid's Avatar
pitzoid pitzoid is offline
Registered User
AKA: BOB
no team (4FX Design)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Rookie Year: 1998
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 105
pitzoid is a glorious beacon of lightpitzoid is a glorious beacon of lightpitzoid is a glorious beacon of lightpitzoid is a glorious beacon of lightpitzoid is a glorious beacon of lightpitzoid is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Look at the Big Picture

I'll throw in some change

I've been involved in robot competitions for more than 15 years. ASME, ANS, AUVSI, FIRST, BattleBots, RobotWars, Robotica and my own production BotBash. Concerns about rules are always the same when you get a bunch of intelligent people who are so passionate about being involved.

FIRST FRC in particular has elevated blood pressure having to do with this because of the sheer quantity of people involved. Everyone has an opinion.

When I first saw the <G14> rule a few months back, I knew it would be the lightening rod this year and really didn't have a high opinion of it, as I thought "why punish the teams who are "good"". But after I settled down about it, I just realized "ITS A GAME RULE", it adds to the challenge. Game rules are usually derived from something that one person did that was of enough concern that it was felt a rule should be made for one reason or another, or it could be something someone responsible just wants to try to see if it reaches a desired effect. I mean just like building engineering prototypes, no one can guarantee new ideas will work unless something is tried. Rules that may seem like they make no sense, do have reason. It just might not be wise to disseminate the reason as with highly passionate people it might cause more grief then letting them wonder why. GDC isn’t dumb.

What the GDC has to do every year in this regard is an incredible feat, and to tell the truth, I think they do a very good job given the overall circumstances. Fact is you will NEVER make everyone happy, you just do the best you can and then paint the bulls-eye on your chest, it’ll always be the same because people don’t change.

I just wish they’d get rid of the “no celebration rule” in the NFL, I like the dances……
__________________
BotBash BOB Pitzer
Harvest CROO Robotics and 4FX Design
Reply With Quote
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 22-02-2009, 13:11
gorrilla's Avatar
gorrilla gorrilla is online now
1557 alumni, 4639 mentor
AKA: adam spears
FRC #4639 (RoboSpartans)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Houston
Posts: 944
gorrilla has a brilliant futuregorrilla has a brilliant futuregorrilla has a brilliant futuregorrilla has a brilliant futuregorrilla has a brilliant futuregorrilla has a brilliant futuregorrilla has a brilliant futuregorrilla has a brilliant futuregorrilla has a brilliant futuregorrilla has a brilliant futuregorrilla has a brilliant future
Re: Look at the Big Picture

I personaly dont mind the rules that much, it just makes it more of a challenge for me
__________________
Adam Spears



Team 1557 2007-2011 student-Lake County FL

Current Team 4639 mentor- Houston TX
Reply With Quote
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 22-02-2009, 13:13
Rick TYler Rick TYler is offline
A VEX GUy WIth A STicky SHift KEy
VRC #0010 (Exothermic Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Redmond, Washington
Posts: 2,000
Rick TYler has a reputation beyond reputeRick TYler has a reputation beyond reputeRick TYler has a reputation beyond reputeRick TYler has a reputation beyond reputeRick TYler has a reputation beyond reputeRick TYler has a reputation beyond reputeRick TYler has a reputation beyond reputeRick TYler has a reputation beyond reputeRick TYler has a reputation beyond reputeRick TYler has a reputation beyond reputeRick TYler has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Look at the Big Picture

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery View Post
But as will all things, experiences may vary. Perhaps you have competitions that you are in that have outstanding rules, and if so, please share with the rest of us.
To answer this question: the Vex Robotics Competition. I think they are as good as FIRST's GDC, as a rule, but that's no surprise given who is at IFI (Jason Morrella, Karthik, JVN, etc.)

The battery ruling strikes me as odd, and I'm not fond of the cutesy names given to some of the game elements of this year's FRC game, but I wouldn't pillory a group that has the long-term track history of the game design committee. In my book, the GDC is one of the great treasures of FIRST.

Perhaps it's time to eliminate the traditions of the "build season" and shipping the robot in a sealed crate. I left FRC a couple of years ago to build a team focused on FTC, and now on the Vex Robotics Competition. Without the pressure of the build season and its attending hoo-haw, the students on our team are able to spend more time trying ideas, doing spiral design, and generally refining their machines.

This thread is about "how should we respond to elements in the game rules that some people don't like" and not one about comparing different robot programs, so I don't want to go there. I am suggesting that the six-week build and ship adds what might be an unnecessary level of rules and hassle. Just saying...
__________________
Exothermic Robotics Club, Venturing Crew 2036
VRC 10A, 10B, 10D, 10Q, 10V, 10X, 10Z, and 575
Reply With Quote
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 22-02-2009, 13:45
rees2001 rees2001 is offline
Registered User
AKA: Rees
FRC #0340 (Greater Rochester Robotics)
Team Role: Teacher
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Rochester NY
Posts: 802
rees2001 has a reputation beyond reputerees2001 has a reputation beyond reputerees2001 has a reputation beyond reputerees2001 has a reputation beyond reputerees2001 has a reputation beyond reputerees2001 has a reputation beyond reputerees2001 has a reputation beyond reputerees2001 has a reputation beyond reputerees2001 has a reputation beyond reputerees2001 has a reputation beyond reputerees2001 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Look at the Big Picture

I have pretty much sat back & just listened/read the gripes all season. Most of the time I would just think to myself, if they read the rules more carefully or checked the FIRST forums they would realize their design is not legal. The problem is many teams took their questions here, to the CD community. I have also not felt the need to post because I have no problems with ANY of the rules.

I think this is where our big deal is made. People that have problems bring them here & make their voices heard, over & over again. People that don’t have a problem don’t need to speak up. If we don’t speak up the people that complain think everybody feels the same as them because that is all they read/hear. I think it was about time some of us stood up & said that we don’t have a problem with the rules. I applaud you for staring this thread to stand up and say that the GDC is doing a fine job.

After a little digestion, I don’t think every rule makes complete sense but I can live with all of them. Let’s take the effort we are putting into pointing out the problems & find a way to make our collective regional competitions the best they can be.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How many of you look at the news on the portal Bharat Nain CD Forum Support 9 04-01-2005 20:16
Take a look at the picture. Michael R. Lee Chit-Chat 4 23-10-2004 21:30
Gus can put the big balls on the goals on the bridge!!! archiver 2001 0 24-06-2002 01:30
Look at the Pic archiver 2001 5 24-06-2002 01:10
The 'Big Picture' regarding regional space.. archiver 2000 1 23-06-2002 23:58


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 18:10.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi