GLR or MWR

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Posted by Mike Soukup at 03/15/2001 12:02 PM EST


Engineer on team #111, Wildstang, from Rolling Meadows & Wheeling and Motorola.


In Reply to: Re: teams who can balance from off the ramp..
Posted by colleen - T190 on 03/15/2001 11:03 AM EST:



: I can't wait to see Team Beatty in action!

Agreed, Beatty's machine is exceptional; each time I see it (live or video) I'm amazed.

Their bot is fun to see in action, unless of course you're competing against them and they're putting up scores that you can't match (ie WMR). I still think that if the 66 alliance tied 620 set by 71's alliance, they would have gotten 700 in the next match and still beat us.

Mike

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Posted by Chris Hibner at 03/16/2001 2:39 PM EST


Coach on team #308, Walled Lake Monster, from Walled Lake Schools and TRW Automotive Electronics.


In Reply to: Re: teams who can balance from off the ramp..
Posted by colleen - T190 on 03/15/2001 11:03 AM EST:



We balance 2 goals from off of the bridge by ourselves. (see the picture below). We seeded horribly at WMR mostly due to the worst luck I've ever seen. Between qualifying and elims, we had 11 matches (all of which we were supposed to balance the goals). Out of the 11 matches, we had only 3 opportunities to balance. Out of the other 8 matches, 5 times a robot flipped over on the bridge blocking it, 2 times the bridge came off of the 4x6 when a robot crossed it, and the other time the partner team that was supposed to drag the goal to the other side lost a tank tread and burned a motor.

During our three opportunities, we dumped the goals once (drivers didn't check the balance light before backing away so the goals weren't balanced yet), we accidentally hit the stop button as we were backing away, causing the goals to not count but they were balanced, and we balanced successfully and they counted the other time.

I just want to point out that ultimately, we bear the responsibility for the bad luck. Some of our robot's features weren't working properly so we had to rely on teams to do things that they weren't fully comfortable with. However, over the 3 day post-competition period, we got everything working so we should be good to go at the Great Lakes Regional. Now that we have everything working, I'm just hoping that we get some good luck on our side.

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Posted by Matt Starkey at 03/16/2001 2:33 PM EST


Engineer on team #236, Techno Ticks, from Lyme/Old-Lyme High School and Millstone Power Station.


In Reply to: Re: teams who can balance from off the ramp..
Posted by Michael Betts on 03/15/2001 9:05 AM EST:



Team 236 is an excellent partner for the single goal off the ramp balancers. To refresh the New England Regional attendee's memories, the TECHNO TICK robot is the FORKLIFT. Lift a full goal to the high side of a ramp and lower to balance. A team like Bobcat would not have to push any farther up the ramp than as shown in the last picture. And, on top of all of that, we are under the bar with increased speed. Not to toot our own horns, Ah what the heck...TOOT TOOT.

Team 236, the Ticks are on the move!


: : More than just Beatey cant get goals balanced from off the ramp. And Beatey does it very reliably (I never saw them fail at WMR)! Team 111 (Wildstang) also facilitates goals being balanced from off the bridge. Team 308(?), TRW, can also balance two goals from off the bridge, but from my observations were not as efficient or reliable as the first two.

: Bill,

: The Bobcat was designed to do just that.

: We are designed to move one goal onto, across and to the opposite side of the bridge. This allows a partner to push a goal onto the bridge and then we retract the arm, balance the bridge then let go of the goal.

: Attached, you will see a picture from the Quincy Scrimmage.

: Note to self... Get better picture!

: Mike

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Posted by Justin at 03/15/2001 9:41 AM EST


Engineer on team #146, Blue Lightning, from none and The Blue Lightning Alumni Association.


In Reply to: teams who can balance from off the ramp..
Posted by bill whitley on 03/14/2001 7:22 PM EST:



Hey,

What about a robot that could I don't know say put a 3rd or 4th ball in between the goals and squeeze the goals together. I know a few that claim to be able to. I've also seen the videos of 188, and while I haven't seen them play they look like they could pull it off that's 4 big balls right there which is 20 more points then most are gonna pull off and it's also 10 more then an an alliance w/all 10 in the endzone.

-Justin

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Posted by mike oleary at 03/16/2001 11:14 AM EST


Student on team #419, rambots, from bc high and sponsors are overrated..go pocket-change robots!!!.


In Reply to: Re: teams who can balance from off the ramp..
Posted by Justin on 03/15/2001 9:41 AM EST:



what if a team could put a goal on its side on the bridge and put two big balls on top of that...efficiently...i dont know if any teams can do it at all but it would be interesting to see if they could pull it off

: Hey,

: What about a robot that could I don't know say put a 3rd or 4th ball in between the goals and squeeze the goals together. I know a few that claim to be able to. I've also seen the videos of 188, and while I haven't seen them play they look like they could pull it off that's 4 big balls right there which is 20 more points then most are gonna pull off and it's also 10 more then an an alliance w/all 10 in the endzone.

: -Justin

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Posted by Paul Copioli at 03/14/2001 2:41 PM EST


Engineer on team #217, Team Macomb - Royal Fusion, from Utica Schools, Fraser Schools, Warren Cons. School and Ford Motor Company.


In Reply to: 810 Dr Joe's Way
Posted by Joe Johnson on 03/14/2001 12:03 PM EST:



Dr. Joe, et al.,

There is another 800 way that team 45 started experimenting with. Here it goes:

Robots needed:

(1) Rampbot or Double goal balancer ala Team 71.
(2) Very fast (and controllable) robot with single hitching capability (dual hitch not needed). Limbo would be better, but not necessary.
(3) Limbo Large ball picker (Team #67 is ideal)
(4a) Another limbo large ball if (1) is not ramp bot or
(4b) A fast large ball if using ramp bot.


The sequence:

(1) Robot 4 pushes near goal to player station to fill with 10 balls, and robot 3 limbos to get the big ball.


(2) Robot 2 limbos under and goes straight for the far goal. Latches and comes back over the bridge.


(3) While Robot 2 limbos, Robot 1 goes over the bridge, but does not setup as the ramp.

(4)After Robot 2 comes over the bridge, Robot 1 sets up as a bridge and robot 3 brings the filled near goal across the bridge. Robot 3 puts large ball on top.

(5) Robot 2 waits for the last 10 small balls from the player's station and heads for the bridge with goal in tow.

(6) While the goal transporting is happening, Robot 3 or 4 can get another big ball ready to place on top.

Believe it or not, 1-5 should be able to be accomplished in 36 - 45 seconds. We have run through steps 1-5 and accomplished them between 36 - 45 seconds. We did not have a rampbot (during our 3 days after WMR) or a robot such as 71, so the balance and last ball placement is the catch. this is definitely possible (80*10). And hey, if you don't get it in :59, then you will have a chance at 640pts.

I feel an alliance with a team 71 type robot can easily break 700 (they were 3 seconds away at WMR) and the type of strategy I mention above (or some variation), may be the only way to beat it.

Any thoughts?

-Paul



: I can only see 800 be possible with the stretcher.


: Here is my most likely method:

: 1: 2 goal off bridge balancer that can pull stretcher
: 2: limbo bot with big ball handler
: 3: goal pusher/puller with bridge resetting
: 4: box of rocks... ...with a battery and a light ;-)

: 1st 30 seconds:
: Limbo Bot/Ball Handler limbos to other side, gets big ball puts in on far goal, begins to get another ball

: Goal Balancer/Stretcher Puller docks with stretcher pulls it to end zone and positions itself to push two goals onto bridge when ready.

: Goal Pusher/Puller pushes near goal against glass,
: waits for 11 balls to be loaded, pulls goal over to far side of field, resetting the bridge for itself on the way.

: 2nd 30 seconds:
: Goal Pusher/Puller drops off goal in position on far side of the goal, heads to end zone.

: Limbo Bot/Ball Handler puts second ball on top of second goal, heads to end zone.

: Balancer Bot pushes both goals onto ramp, balances, heads to end zone.

: 4 robots, 1 stretcher, 2 big balls, 11 little balls: 81 base points AND

: Double-Double-Double-and-a-Half

: Total Score 810!

: Tough to do? Yes.

: Impossible? If I understand correctly the reports from WMR, Teams #71, #67, #33 and a box of rocks could possibly make it happen.

: Comments?

: Joe J.

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Posted by colleen - T190 at 03/14/2001 3:22 PM EST


Engineer on team #190, Gompei, from Massachusetts Academy of Math and Science and WPI.


In Reply to: Re: 800 points another way
Posted by Paul Copioli on 03/14/2001 2:41 PM EST:



Our alliance prolly didn't have the speed and agility of many of the more experienced teams out in the Midwest.. but we did what we could in LongIsland at easily grabbed 490pts.. and the same strategy with some different robots or little tidbits added could easily yield high scoring rounds..

The 4 robots:
190 - -fast- across ramp, big ball grabber, ramp wedge
250 - slow, but with amazing traction, 2-goal balancer
353 - speedy under the bar, can tow multiple goals
263 - fast under bar, could sweep balls out, push anyone who gets stuck

353 goes over ramp in tandum with 190.. 353 is now exactly lined up and grabs horizontal bar.. 190 scoots behind them towards big ball.. 353 brings goal back over to near side of the field while 190 grabs a big ball..
meanwhile..250 latches and pushes goal to the glass while 263 hangs on the near side to troubleshoot.. once 353 comes back over.. they drop the goal right in front of 250 and scoot under bar into endzone and clock out..
190 sets up under the already toggled bridge with the big ball up and extended, ready to score.. 250 grabs the goal in front of them and drives up ramp... once they are up.. 263 scoots to endzone and clock out.. ramp slams down on 190.. they drop on big ball.. 250 tweaks a tap to balance, clock out.. 190 drives to endzone and clocks out..

56 seconds..

We only had about 6/7 small balls in as well.. a full goal (of 11/12).. two big balls.. which could be done by either a limbo big ball OR someone like us, 190, who can reach the far goal to score even from the other side of the bridge...

Throwing the stretcher into the mix may not work with this game.. but with some decent HPs.. loading that other goal isn't out of the question..

Key to most strategies is teams being able to execute their tasks, that's all.. thankfully our alliance did an awesome job with that (thanks guys!)

Food for thought...

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Posted by Andy Baker at 03/19/2001 12:32 AM EST


Engineer on team #45, TechnoKats, from Kokomo High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.


In Reply to: Re: 800 points another way
Posted by Paul Copioli on 03/14/2001 2:41 PM EST:



Paul is right... small balls may be the key.

At Motorola Midwest, part of our strategy is to get all 20 HP (or some non-HP) balls and balance in one minute.

There are a couple ways to get those small balls in.

We'll see if it can be done.

Andy B.

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Posted by Carrie at 03/14/2001 5:46 PM EST


Student on team #27, Team Rush, from OSMTech Academy and Textron.


In Reply to: 810 Dr Joe's Way
Posted by Joe Johnson on 03/14/2001 12:03 PM EST:




Hey Dr. Joe,
Can anyone push or pull that box of rocks????
~~~~~~~~Carrie27





: I can only see 800 be possible with the stretcher.

: Here is my most likely method:

: 1: 2 goal off bridge balancer that can pull stretcher
: 2: limbo bot with big ball handler
: 3: goal pusher/puller with bridge resetting
: 4: box of rocks... ...with a battery and a light ;-)

: 1st 30 seconds:
: Limbo Bot/Ball Handler limbos to other side, gets big ball puts in on far goal, begins to get another ball

: Goal Balancer/Stretcher Puller docks with stretcher pulls it to end zone and positions itself to push two goals onto bridge when ready.

: Goal Pusher/Puller pushes near goal against glass,
: waits for 11 balls to be loaded, pulls goal over to far side of field, resetting the bridge for itself on the way.

: 2nd 30 seconds:
: Goal Pusher/Puller drops off goal in position on far side of the goal, heads to end zone.

: Limbo Bot/Ball Handler puts second ball on top of second goal, heads to end zone.

: Balancer Bot pushes both goals onto ramp, balances, heads to end zone.

: 4 robots, 1 stretcher, 2 big balls, 11 little balls: 81 base points AND

: Double-Double-Double-and-a-Half

: Total Score 810!

: Tough to do? Yes.

: Impossible? If I understand correctly the reports from WMR, Teams #71, #67, #33 and a box of rocks could possibly make it happen.

: Comments?

: Joe J.

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Posted by Mike Soukup at 03/15/2001 12:45 AM EST


Engineer on team #111, Wildstang, from Rolling Meadows & Wheeling and Motorola.


In Reply to: 810 Dr Joe's Way
Posted by Joe Johnson on 03/14/2001 12:03 PM EST:



I seem to remember you saying a few weeks ago that 700 will not fall. Does this mean you've changed your mind?

Mike

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Posted by Justin at 03/15/2001 9:48 AM EST


Engineer on team #146, Blue Lightning, from none and The Blue Lightning Alumni Association.


In Reply to: 810 Dr Joe's Way
Posted by Joe Johnson on 03/14/2001 12:03 PM EST:



Hi,

Let me first start by saying that I am no strategy guru but the idea of 700+ or 800+ points does intrigue me. From my expirence watching teams @ UTC, and VA (not quite the caliber of 700 points but they did thier best I know). Anyways it was my observation and expirence that to try and get the stretcher over that ramp is just gonna take way to much time. Most robots aren't designed for it. It takes _a lot_ of power and there were times when teams tried it and got it just about there but didn't have that little extra push out there to get the ramp to swing down. So while I am slightly skeptical of 800 I thin 700+ is within grasp.

However...let me also say right here that I have learned over my 7 years in and following this program...the golden rule is NEVER EVER under ANY circumstances EVER under estimate the FIRST community! So bring it! I just ask that when 800 is scored I'm there 2 see it ;-P

-Justin

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Posted by soap108 at 03/15/2001 3:16 PM EST


Engineer on team #108, SigmaC@T, from Dillard & Taravella HS and Motorola.


In Reply to: Re: 810 Dr Joe's Way
Posted by Justin on 03/15/2001 9:48 AM EST:




I hope 800 happens at IL....SOAP will be digitizing the matches and posting them online near-Live.....keep looking to this board for details on the exact URL, and/or keep in touch at soap108.com

If you don't already have QuickTime player installed...Get it at www.apple.com/quicktime Use version 4.x.x or higher... It's free.

Also, Team 233 did a good job of "Ambulance" at KSC...I forget off hand the time it took, but you can watch it at www.soap108.com/ksc look for a movies link....


LAter,
KA



: Hi,

: Let me first start by saying that I am no strategy guru but the idea of 700+ or 800+ points does intrigue me. From my expirence watching teams @ UTC, and VA (not quite the caliber of 700 points but they did thier best I know). Anyways it was my observation and expirence that to try and get the stretcher over that ramp is just gonna take way to much time. Most robots aren't designed for it. It takes _a lot_ of power and there were times when teams tried it and got it just about there but didn't have that little extra push out there to get the ramp to swing down. So while I am slightly skeptical of 800 I thin 700+ is within grasp.

: However...let me also say right here that I have learned over my 7 years in and following this program...the golden rule is NEVER EVER under ANY circumstances EVER under estimate the FIRST community! So bring it! I just ask that when 800 is scored I'm there 2 see it ;-P

: -Justin

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Posted by Raul at 03/14/2001 1:40 PM EST


Engineer on team #111, Wildstang, from Rolling Meadows & Wheeling HS and Motorola.


In Reply to: 800 Revisited
Posted by Bill Beatty on 03/14/2001 10:42 AM EST:



Bill,

In fact, if you notice where the goal was when it was dropped off, it could not have tipped the bridge the way it did.

Look at the film again carefully. You will see that what caused our robot to buckle up and tip the bridge was team 66 driving over our ramp which was accidentally raised by our operator.

792 = 720 + 10% bonus, right?

Raul


: Ok, so I exaggerated a bit. But how about a 792? That last 8 points is tough! I think it can and will happen soon.

: BTW. One of my guys said that you mentioned that you lost that last goal because of operator error. Are you sure it wasn't just an out of balance condition? I have a tape that clearly shows the bridge lifting your bot up off of the ground. It doesn't show what is happening to cause it, but at that point there is definitely a severe out of balance condition. I can send you a copy if it would help.

: And yes. You definitely gave us a scare! As you know, it is extremely uncomfortable to be in a do or die position.

: Regards,

: Mr Bill

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Posted by Nate Smith at 03/14/2001 4:37 PM EST


Other on team #66, Frostbite, from Willow Run High School and GM Powertrain.


In Reply to: Re: 800 Revisited
Posted by Raul on 03/14/2001 1:40 PM EST:



: Look at the film again carefully. You will see that what caused our robot to buckle up and tip the bridge was team 66 driving over our ramp which was accidentally raised by our operator.

Yep...we looked at that same round at our meeting monday, and you guys were raised just slightly enough to tip the bridge when we(66) drove off the bridge and over your machine...oh well, always have nationals to make up for it as an alliance again, right? =)

Nate