Predictions on how the games are gonna go!

[Electricia 1599]

What do you think is going to happen at the competition this year. We have a new game that tons of people at first freaked out about but now we are mostly confident. Tell us your input/ prediction on either bad or good things that could potentially happen during competition. I personally think that whatever happens some robots will get damaged and we will see some really cool robots this year. Im rooting for all teams to have fun, make friends, and enjoy this years game! I Wish everyone the best of luck!!!!
see ya there
Alex

[big1boom]

My prediction


Their will be a huge number of robots that have a shooter, but the shooter doesn't work quite right.

Their will be a large amount of teams that have a working dumper, but a drive system that doesn't work very well on the surface.

Their will be lots of teams that think more wheels means more traction

A few teams will pull off a safe propeller system.

And very few teams will combine an amazing drivebase, with a fast scoring manipulator.

Overall, I think that this year will be very fun. Veteran teams had to do new things, Rookie teams will be competative in some form.

2-5 year teams will have the advantage this year I believe.

[ehochstein]

Well I'm just going to guess that a LOT of balls will be falling out of the arena, and maybe a little damage to robots. I was practicing driving the other day, and I found a way to turn easily without bumpers on. I never got a chance to do it with bumpers, but I am guessing a lot of teams will be using that strategy. I just think that 6 robots and trailers on a field that size will create many collisions.

[IKE]

Dumpers will be the early favorites. The combination of quick response and high volume will be amplified by their generally elegant designs. Because there is less to tune the dumpers will have more practice time and will rack up the big scores early on.

Mid season will see a big change in competition. Decent teams will learn how to stay off the ropes (not get pinned), and protect their less capable buddies. Dumpers will be dropping their loads in Automode early. Some will be succesful, while others will litter the floor. Scores will go down as the number of balls on the floor will go up. Sweepers will be key to winning alliances.

Late Season. Here come the assasins. Teams will have learned good strategies for converting empty cells into super cells. Fast acting shooters will assult their opponents with bonus shots at the end. Dumpers will have to get more creative as teams will have figured out how to evade their shots.

Einstein. Winning alliance will have 3 different bots for a change. 1 high volume fast acting dumper/driven dumper, one accurate fast and manuverable shooter. 1 sweeper bot. The sweeper may have a cannon on board, but will primarily scoop up loose balls and convert empty cells.

The most interesting thing I predict is that the dumpers will be in the Driver's seat during alliance selection. They will do well picking on the weak during qualifying matches, but will have more trouble once the tournament potion begins and the duds are mostly gone.

First in Michigan:
Dumpers will rule the district events. The fast pace and heavy match schedule will suit them well. They will have the top slots at almost every district event. This may actually hurt them at some of the smaller districts as their third partner will be fairly week. Expect big things from the #4-8alliances.


State Championship will be a different story. Dumpers will still be effective, but with the top 50% of Michigan competing, It will be harder to find a dud to pick on. The shooters will be fully tuned in and will be real threats. What will differ from the district events is that at the Champioship, the #1 and #2 alliances will be much stronger positions with 60 teams to choose from.

Just one man's opinion.

[Ian Curtis]

This is going to be a very odd year for drafting. Excellent robots may not be able to cary their own. Paired up with two robots who barely move (or even one), even a robot of 254 caliber may be unable to carry the alliance. Meanwhile Joe-Schmoe team may luck their way into the top spot. I'd bet a cookie (or a donut) that a smaller percentage of #1 seeds win regionals this year than last year.

I think week 1 regionals will be dominated by teams who finished early and got time to practice. I'd go with IKE that dumpers will lead the way. Shooters won't be able to keep up with the volume, and their control loops probably won't be able to handle a quickly moving robot.

Teams will quickly figure out that stopping is death. You must keep moving, even in autonomous. We might see some pile ups on Thursday and Friday, but by Saturday we'll see six robots pirouetting in their separate corners of the field, or six robots sliding all over the field.

Empty Cells. Some people will refuse to recognize their importance. Some people will put too much importance on them.

We've already made a fool of ourselves guessing scores early on. I think for once the average guess will be about on the money.

[akeisic]

I agree with Ike. Watching the vids of 184 and 254 brings doubts to the shooters out there, but their game changing impact the last 20 seconds will be crucial.

As shooter teams head to collect the super cells other teams will likely be looking for a place to hide. The smart alliances will send their dumper and shooter to opposite ends of the field to collect the super cells - maximizing scoring potential. I suspect there will be a bunch near the middle of the field at the end of most matches, which is where the shooters will be the most effective as they'll be able to target 'over their shoulder' to score the super cell.

[Wayne TenBrink]

I agree that the dumpers will dominate early, and shooters importance will grow as the season wears on. I am not so sure that they will ever become the dominant force.

I predict that 80% or more of the robot-scored rocks will be from within 2 feet - including shooters.

Most of these discussions ignore the role of the payload specialists. They will do the vast majority of the scoring during autonomous. They will score a lot during teleoperation. They also control the ball supply on the floor. As the season goes on, they will wise up and not be so generous to us ball collectors. This could change the whole flavor of the game and create an opportunity for dominant drive systems & coordinated alliance partners to simply push a target (with an unwitting robot attached, of course) over to the nearest payload specialist.

A lack of balls on the floor would also increase the relative value of robots that are easily reloaded by the payload specialist.

I predict that strategies will develop that nobody predicted before the competitions began. How's that for a bold prediction?

[ZakuAce]

Originally Posted by akeisic

I agree with Ike. Watching the vids of 184 and 254 brings doubts to the shooters out there, but their game changing impact the last 20 seconds will be crucial.

As shooter teams head to collect the super cells other teams will likely be looking for a place to hide. The smart alliances will send their dumper and shooter to opposite ends of the field to collect the super cells - maximizing scoring potential. I suspect there will be a bunch near the middle of the field at the end of most matches, which is where the shooters will be the most effective as they'll be able to target 'over their shoulder' to score the super cell.

I completely agree with you. As I posted in driving stratagies, if your teammates can pin the opposing robots, sending your shooter in to dump a super cell or two into the opposing alliance's trailers will be very important. Also, the turreted shooters have the advantage when it comes to manuverability. A dumper (as far as I have seen) cannot aim itself without turning the entire robot. However, a turreted shooter can still score even when pinned. The shooter bots will have to use every advantage they have at their disposal.

Teamwork is crucial, so the scouts and drive teams of each alliance need to spend a decent amount of time stratagizing before their matches. The drive teams need to be well coordinated and know what each team is doing. Failure to do so will result in a lost match.

Edit: Something to add: One thing I saw with the dumpers: other than driving right up to the trailer, they don't really have a way to direct the balls into the trailer. Some may miss. A shooter that can work like a power dumper will be absolutly deadly. If the robot is able to take long shots as well as get really close and unload fast and accuratly, they will be the ultimate robot. Even a shooter that has a low shot angle and is designed to spit out balls right into the trailer from two feet (like what we want to do) can be better than a dumper. Maybe I'm just being confident for my team's design, but I like to think we can do some serious damage.

[Jason Morrella]

I haven't really done the detailed prediction thing in the past, but since there are a number of new twists in FRC this year I'll give it a go:

1. I predict that the new surface or rules will NOT in any large way result in "leveling the playing field" or giving any sort of advantage to newer teams over veterans as some have predicted. I think the veteran teams who consistently perform at a top level will do so again, proving that their structure, organization, design process and experience are the main ingredients for their success. As usual, I also expect many newer teams to take big steps to the next level as they build on their experience.

2. I predict that this season will show that three groups of teams will have a huge advantage over the rest of the field: teams that were part of the CRio Beta test, teams in the different FIRST in Michigan model and teams that have the resources/funds to build a full 2nd practice robot and practice field.

2a. I predict that at least 5 of the 6 final teams on Einstein in Atlanta will have been in those groups.

3. I predict that if it is finally shown beyond any doubt that the teams which have more time to work on their robots at home, teams that got to pay less to play and the teams that have the resources to build practice robots have a huge competitive advantage over everyone else, that it will force FIRST to get rid of the 6 week build schedule and required robot shipping to events. Yes, I'm saying teams will get to keep their robots, will get to keep working on them and will get to bring them to each event themselves. Those are not the only reasons I think this change will be made - other factors that will result in this major change will be financial savings to FIRST and how much easier/simpler many aspects would be (so many rule debates are based on the shipping and fix it windows, issues like the passionate battery debate would disappear - freeing up time, energy and sanity for mentors, students and the GDC members).

3a. This would also save FedEx money overall, so I'm sure FIRST and FedEx will still ensure donated shipping to/from events for teams not within driving distance of a regional.

I know, prediction 3 is a big one, but especially in economic times like these, there are just way too many resources (money) going into shipping and the need to build practice robots. Those funds could be much better spent on school materials and equipment, travel or just reduced fundraising stress if practice robots were no longer needed and shipping expenses were removed.

4. I predict the game will end up being liked (but a couple of the rules will be very disliked) and the playoffs at all events and the Championship will be very entertaining as usual.

5. I predict/hope everyone has a great season and looks back proudly on all their hard work, time, dedication, teamwork and accomplishments (which has nothing to do with how their robot finishes at an event).

[Mr. Lim]

An immobile robot on your alliance = 40+ point disadvantage

These robots will dictate the outcome of a match more than anything else.

It's week 1. Things break, teams aren't totally prepared, keys fall out, chains slip, programs are run instead of downloaded, PWM cables come loose. A lot of "shift" happens this week.

Non-mobile and semi-mobile robots have always made regular appearances in qualifiers. But in past years, better than average teams could still dig their alliance out of a hole. (In fact last year, I almost witnessed an alliance of three no-shows beat an alliance of one mobile robot)

Come 2nd pick time, at regionals without deep fields, expect reliable drivetrains and strong human players to round out the top seeds.

[GODUX123]

I know it's impossible, but one of our mentors said she had a dream that we'd score 206 pts. in a single match. Beat that!

[GODUX123]

One more thing, dumpers won't dominate because of accuracy.

[Killraine]

Originally Posted by Jason Morrella

3. I predict that if it is finally shown beyond any doubt that the teams which have more time to work on their robots at home, teams that got to pay less to play and the teams that have the resources to build practice robots have a huge competitive advantage over everyone else, that it will force FIRST to get rid of the 6 week build schedule and required robot shipping to events. Yes, I'm saying teams will get to keep their robots, will get to keep working on them and will get to bring them to each event themselves. Those are not the only reasons I think this change will be made - other factors that will result in this major change will be financial savings to FIRST and how much easier/simpler many aspects would be (so many rule debates are based on the shipping and fix it windows, issues like the passionate battery debate would disappear - freeing up time, energy and sanity for mentors, students and the GDC members).

3a. This would also save FedEx money overall, so I'm sure FIRST and FedEx will still ensure donated shipping to/from events for teams not within driving distance of a regional.

I can't imagine that FIRST would EVER get rid of the 6 weeks/ship date. This policy is the only thing that comes close to balancing the early vs late regionals. If you are in the last regional and you don't have to ship, you have a whole extra build season!

As for what we will see in competition?

I'm betting on a lot of cluster and disorganization for longer than in previous years. Since this competition is based more on the robots than the game elements, teams will need to develop strategies for handling different opponents. We will start to see real alliance strategies at the Week 1 elimination rounds after alliances have been formed. As a whole, Lunacy will prove to be a much more unpredictable game than we think and we will be surprised by some truly ingenious alliance strategies (aka Champions.)

[Vikesrock]

Originally Posted by Jason Morrella

2. I predict that this season will show that three groups of teams will have a huge advantage over the rest of the field: teams that were part of the CRio Beta test, teams in the different FIRST in Michigan model and teams that have the resources/funds to build a full 2nd practice robot and practice field.

2a. I predict that at least 5 of the 6 final teams on Einstein in Atlanta will have been in those groups.

I kind of feel like this one is pretty heavily tied to #1. The teams that were part of the beta test and the teams that have the resources to build a practice robot are many of the same teams that we see having great success year after year. I think it would be very difficult to discern if being part of the beta test or having a practice robot had an effect. The same goes for any of the Michigan teams that nobody would be surprised to see on Einstein (33, 47, 67, 217, etc..).

[Jason Morrella]

Originally Posted by Killraine

I can't imagine that FIRST would EVER get rid of the 6 weeks/ship date. This policy is the only thing that comes close to balancing the early vs late regionals. If you are in the last regional and you don't have to ship, you have a whole extra build season!

You're forgetting one thing - at any event, no matter where it is during the season/calendar, every team will have had their robots up until that point, so the "build season" for each team is the same as any/all teams they would ever be competing against. Effectively, the build season for every team will be the same - from the kickoff until the end of the last event they compete in that season (if other teams play at a later date, that doesn't matter or impact the finished teams at all).

PS - I'm not saying I'm in favor or not in favor of prediction # 3 (pros and cons both ways), it's just a prediction, that's all.

I agree with Vikesrock about prediction # 2. The only way to really tell will be by looking at those groups of teams as a whole - the perennial top teams and the ones that might not have been as successful the past couple years. What percentage of those teams made the finals at events, how many seeded at the top, how'd they do at events outside of Michigan and so on. If nothing else it'll be a nice statistical analysis that might show something or nothing.