A good driver makes his own strategy. What do you think?

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Posted by Anton Abaya at 03/15/2001 3:51 PM EST


Coach on team #419, Rambots, from UMass Boston / BC High and If only we had free donuts....


In Reply to: A good driver makes his own strategy. What do you think?
Posted by bill whitley on 03/14/2001 9:49 PM EST:



I wish drivers could do this....

BUT REALITY CHECK!

they cant. they're spending time driving the robot and learning what needs to be done.

there are times split second decisions are necessary for them to make, but there are times when whatever the coaches say are whatever goes. it's a team effort to work together ---and in the end, a lot more is done.

a driver cannot see everything occurring on the playing field. Coaches look at the big picture. The 2nd coach is ideally an engineer who can be sure the robot is not getting abused. And the drivers concentrate on driving the machine.

Coaches are there because they are good in strategy and can see the bigger picture that drivers sometimes NEVER see. IF the coach was a ninny (and i've seen a lot). But sometimes, even the drivers do not know how to play the game either.

If it were all up to drivers, I'd be happier cuz I can watch from a distance my sexy wobot doing its thing. But unfortunately, I have to be right there on the stage making it happen. Teamwork and communication, it is the key.

-anton

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Posted by bill whitley at 03/15/2001 4:16 PM EST


Student on team #70, Auto City Bandits, from Powers Catholic High School and Kettering University.


In Reply to: yes yes yes!
Posted by Anton Abaya on 03/15/2001 3:51 PM EST:



: I wish drivers could do this....

: BUT REALITY CHECK!

: they cant. they're spending time driving the robot and learning what needs to be done.

because drivers spend time driving the robot, they more than anyone need to know the scoring and rules. the things most necessary for the strategy.

: there are times split second decisions are necessary for them to make, but there are times when whatever the coaches say are whatever goes. it's a team effort to work together ---and in the end, a lot more is done.

this is a high school student competition. when it comes to the actual competing part of this competition, why should students have the finals say? that would be a team efford just as much as an engineer saying what to do.

: a driver cannot see everything occurring on the playing field. Coaches look at the big picture. The 2nd coach is ideally an engineer who can be sure the robot is not getting abused. And the drivers concentrate on driving the machine.

I agree that during the match the coaches should be looking at the big picture and what strategies should be carried out because at that time, the driver is busy driving. But before the match, the driver should be more than capable.

: Coaches are there because they are good in strategy and can see the bigger picture that drivers sometimes NEVER see. IF the coach was a ninny (and i've seen a lot). But sometimes, even the drivers do not know how to play the game either.

If the driver doesnt see the big picture, they should be driving in the first place. A student is just as capable of seeing the bigger picture as any coach.

: If it were all up to drivers, I'd be happier cuz I can watch from a distance my sexy wobot doing its thing. But unfortunately, I have to be right there on the stage making it happen. Teamwork and communication, it is the key.

: -anton


I feel very strongly that this is a high school student competition, and that we should do the work. Coaches & engineers are there to facilitate us, not to do the work for us.

Bill
Team #70

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Posted by Tom at 03/15/2001 9:21 PM EST


Student on team #25, Raider Robotix, from North Brunswick Township High School and Bristol Myers-Squib.


In Reply to: i disagree. heres why...
Posted by bill whitley on 03/15/2001 4:16 PM EST:



Not true.

The engineers know a lot more about the physical limits of the materials and parts used on the robot than we do. For in stance:

If you try to drag a robot that got disabled in the middle of a match side ways, up the bridge, and it's obvious that your robot cannot do it, all the driver is concentrating on is getting the highest score possible by getting the robot in the endzone. Then it is the engineers job to step in and tell the driver to stop before you burn a drill motor, or break one f it's hooks off (trust me i saw this tried today in NJ, luckily it was a practice round)

As for coaches, they should know more about the strategy than the drivers. Drivers should concentrate on driving, that's what the are there for. It's hard to concentrate on manuvering a robot and thinking about strategy and scores ahead of time. The drivers should be trained to do what ever a coach tells them, and that in this game there is no time for argument.

As for your last statement. Yes this is a high school competition and engineers should keep some distance. But this is not a competition where the robots are all engineered and built by students, hence the name of FIRST, For INSPIRATION and RECOGNITION of Science and Technology. Your here to learn from the engineers.

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Posted by Travis Covington at 03/16/2001 1:45 AM EST


Student on team #115, MVRT, from Monta Vista High School and 3com - NASA-Xilinx-Hitachi Data Systems.


In Reply to: Re: i disagree. heres why...
Posted by Tom on 03/15/2001 9:21 PM EST:



: Not true.

: The engineers know a lot more about the physical limits of the materials and parts used on the robot than we do. For in stance:

: If you try to drag a robot that got disabled in the middle of a match side ways, up the bridge, and it's obvious that your robot cannot do it, all the driver is concentrating on is getting the highest score possible by getting the robot in the endzone. Then it is the engineers job to step in and tell the driver to stop before you burn a drill motor, or break one f it's hooks off (trust me i saw this tried today in NJ, luckily it was a practice round)

Uhmm...why dont the students know this info...sounds valuable

: As for coaches, they should know more about the strategy than the drivers. Drivers should concentrate on driving, that's what the are there for. It's hard to concentrate on manuvering a robot and thinking about strategy and scores ahead of time. The drivers should be trained to do what ever a coach tells them, and that in this game there is no time for argument.

uhmm..why dont you have other students strategizing...your team has got to have more than 5 students

: As for your last statement. Yes this is a high school competition and engineers should keep some distance. But this is not a competition where the robots are all engineered and built by students, hence the name of FIRST, For INSPIRATION and RECOGNITION of Science and Technology. Your here to learn from the engineers.

YES..learn from the engineers...not have them do things for you

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Posted by Matt Ryan at 03/16/2001 7:22 PM EST


Student on team #69, HYPER, from Quincy Public Schools and Gillette.


In Reply to: Re: i disagree. heres why...
Posted by Travis Covington on 03/16/2001 1:45 AM EST:



The students who are driving should be familiarized with the robot. If they aren't, they shouldn't be driving in the first place. If they can't see the big picture, they shouldn't be driving (actually...they shouldn't look at the big picture, they should take a quick glance and react). The drivers would know more about the game and the robot than most other people. If they don't do that strategy, who will?

Just because an engineer knows the physical limits of a robot is doesn't mean he/she knows how to play the game.

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Posted by Tom at 03/16/2001 9:23 PM EST


Student on team #25, Raider Robotix, from North Brunswick Township High School and Bristol Myers-Squib.


In Reply to: Re: i disagree. heres why...
Posted by Matt Ryan on 03/16/2001 7:22 PM EST:



My point is that the drivers already have too much on there mind to worry about strategy. Someone needs to think about it for them.

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Posted by mike oleary at 03/16/2001 10:13 PM EST


Student on team #419, rambots, from bc high and sponsors are overrated..go pocket-change robots!!!.


In Reply to: Re: i disagree. heres why...
Posted by Tom on 03/16/2001 9:23 PM EST:



: Someone needs to think about it for them.

i suppose..thats one way of looking at it and i can see youre point...it just raises the question: why do us rambots have anton in that role then?

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Posted by Matt Ryan at 03/17/2001 9:44 AM EST


Student on team #69, HYPER, from Quincy Public Schools and Gillette.


In Reply to: Re: i disagree. heres why...
Posted by Tom on 03/16/2001 9:23 PM EST:



: My point is that the drivers already have too much on there mind to worry about strategy. Someone needs to think about it for them.

No they don't have too much. They should be responsible for their own strategies. The drivers know the performance of the robot more than anyone else. Guess who is driving the robot? The drivers. Guess who needs to know what to do? The drivers. If they don't know the strategy, the drivers are useless. And if they don't strategize, thats just pretty strange, since they will have no idea what to expect in any match.

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Posted by Anton Abaya at 03/19/2001 3:19 PM EST


Coach on team #419, Rambots, from UMass Boston / BC High and If only we had free donuts....


In Reply to: Re: i disagree. heres why...
Posted by Matt Ryan on 03/17/2001 9:44 AM EST:



drivers and coaches are supposed to work together, not against each other, or over one another.

the final goal is to win and they must work to communicate. both parties need to know their tasks and both need to do their jobs accordingly.

if a coach was too uptight, then he is wrong. if a driver is too uptight, then he is wrong. both need to listen to each other and make good decisions.

ultimately, the decision has to end somewhere and someone has to make it. coaches have the experience and knowledge of the field, robot, constraints, etc. Drivers should as well, but leave it to the coaches to handle it.

In the long run, a team with great drivers who can drive the robot perfectly, and coaches who can strategize effectively, and a cooperative effort to communicate in the time you barely have...... it is a winning team.

-anton abaya

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Posted by Ice 98 at 03/15/2001 4:56 PM EST


Other on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Oakland University and Pontiac Central/Delphi I.


In Reply to: A good driver makes his own strategy. What do you think?
Posted by bill whitley on 03/14/2001 9:49 PM EST:



From experience (Chief Delphi 97-98 robot operator), the driver team is what it is... A TEAM. Split the jobs. It is hectic in the limited time given. If the jobs are divided within the strategy it makes it easier to focus on the task. Each individual should be given a job and should also have a plan B according to what happens in the match. As every drive team member knows, there are plenty of surprises.
2 drivers need direct communication. They both need to be aware of their surroundings while completing their task. That is where the other members come in. They need to know how much time is left what they need to do in that time. Time keeper...last minute adjustments and suggestions. They all are critical. Each member should know the robot's capabilities in and out. It doesn't matter if it is an engineer or student...whoever can get the job done most effectively. BUT one engineer is very helpful.

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Posted by Matt Ryan at 03/15/2001 9:12 PM EST


Student on team #69, HYPER, from Quincy Public Schools and Gillette.


In Reply to: A good driver makes his own strategy. What do you think?
Posted by bill whitley on 03/14/2001 9:49 PM EST:



On Team HYPER (69), the whole drive crew and the coaches work out strategy together.

Its better this way since the drivers can create their own strategies, making it easier for them to remember them [the strategies].

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Posted by Sean S. at 03/17/2001 4:16 PM EST


Student on team #11, M.O.R.T. (Mount Olive Robotics Team), from Mount Olive H. S. and BASF.


In Reply to: A good driver makes his own strategy. What do you think?
Posted by bill whitley on 03/14/2001 9:49 PM EST:



Dear Bill,
My name is Sean and I'm the driver from team #11. I believe that the coach should know what all the robots are capable of doing, and that only the coaches from all four teams should work together on making the best strategy. The coach should know what you are capable of handling if your driving the robot. The driver also has a very large responsability on his hands because of his job, so it is easy for the coach to make the best strategy, and then tell the driver what to do.