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#1
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Re: WiFi in pits
When we compete at the Minnesota venue (William's Arena) there was the University network (and that's what I used). There should be zero problems and I won't judge with the rules but I guess the easiest thing to do is to ask a regional manager there.
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#2
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Re: WiFi in pits
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1.Someone didn't get the memo--after all, some of these events have thousands of spectators, and not all of them are neccesarily going to know the rules 2.Someone is deliberatley trying to bring down the system by use of a jammer or some wifi-specific attack |
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#3
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Re: WiFi in pits
In any case, there's not much that can be done about it, nor do they really do anything. At Buckeye, I turned on Airport (yes, I was using a mac) every so often to see if there were any networks that weren't supposed to exist. In what is probably an a/b/g (maybe not even a) card, I saw 2 networks which existed the whole day and at least 5 others that popped in and out throughout the day, a few of which were named '___ (team number removed) laptop connect.' Nothing was done about it.
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#4
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Re: WiFi in pits
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• Robots may be operated via wireless control only on the competition or practice fields. • Two-way radios or other form of wireless communications are not allowed (with the exception of the previous bullet). Wireless communications, and that includes wifi routers for scoring, laptop to laptop networks, etc. with the exception of cellphones is NOT ALLOWED. |
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#5
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Re: WiFi in pits
There were a few dozen people spotted with their lap-tops open and in use in that stands at MWR. I'm not saying they were using wifi but they were on their computers. So how is [i]FIRST[i] going to enforce a no wifi rule?
You can't go around picking up everyones lap-top especially if the person is not a FIRST member. And what about the Blackberries and PDA's? Have their been any problems yet with a person using wifi interfering with the game field or robots? -p ![]() |
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#6
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Re: WiFi in pits
At the Buckeye regional we spoke with team 829 about thier scouting program, which was pretty neat by the way. If I remember correctly they said they teamed up with Purdue FIRST and had someting like 12 people watching matches. These people were somehow tied together and then a final program was compiled for use. It seemed to work for them, maybe someone more familiar with it can explain here?
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#7
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Re: WiFi in pits
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As for the wireless rules, I think FIRST is fully aware of the technical issues with using 5Ghz spectrum and the potential for interference from non Wifi devices. I don't think you will see FIRST come down hard and enforce the rule unless someone is caught intentionally interfering with the field system. That does not mean you shouldn't respect the rules set forth by FIRST even if you are technically sure it wouldn't interfere at all. In the past the FTA would stop by your pit if you were caught using the radio but I didn't hear about that happening at all this week. |
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#8
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Re: WiFi in pits
When we asked them if it was wifi they said no, however they also said that it was not hardwired. I'm not saying they were doing anything illegal I was just wondering what it was they were actually using (infrared maybe?) We did not talk fo very long since it was right before elim picking so we my have not gotten the whole story, however I know that we could benefit from the type of scouting program they had as well as others.
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#9
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Re: WiFi in pits
After the weekend of scrimmages it became very obvious that it would take many people to scout each match effectively. Many more than we could bring to Cleveland
The Purdue teams very generously allowed us to join in their scouting alliance. There were many pairs of eyes watching each match. The scout teams were in the stands networked together via wire. I don't know the final numbers but by Friday afternoon the database was correctly predicting the outcome of 90% of the matches. Big thanks to the Purdue teams. |
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#10
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Re: WiFi in pits
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Since I didn't make it, I'm not sure if I can give you the actual file but I can probably whip something up in Access that would do a decent amount of what was on there. |
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#11
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Re: WiFi in pits
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#12
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Re: WiFi in pits
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Also note that the field creates and destroys 6 networks each match. Lastly, note that FIRST has merely asked that we don't contribute possible interference: NOT that all possible interference must be eliminated. "They did X so I can too" is an invalid argument, because interference is additive (and severely non-linear). We've had many industry heavy-weights weigh in on this (including one who leads one of the 802.11 task groups), and the decision has been made to be cautious. Lets not go down the "they can't enforce it so I'm going to do it any way" path. Even if they can't enforce it, it is a really skeezy thing to do. If they can enforce it, do you really need to be the one that finds out how? Some jerk decided to interfere with the IR transceivers last year. He attempted to screw up several matches before being "firmly asked" to leave. Don't be him. |
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#13
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Re: WiFi in pits
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Well, I'm not sure if this is out of date or not, but it seems that access to the exisiting infrastructure is being provided (at Boilermaker). Also, it seems to be actually more of a safety hazard to go the other route and have a port switch with cables running to every computer necessary. Trust me, when you have six ethernet cables and about 10 power cords running in an area of the stands, it is getting to the point of ridiculous. Regardless of the creation and destruction of the networks, I'm talking about 100 existing at the same time Question: How much interference is there really between the 2.4 and 5 GHz bands? If I remember correctly, the field is set to lock into the 5 GHz, and most wireless at this point is 2.4 (along with microwave ovens and that such). Oh and could you address all of the other networks? The field communications only use 802.11n, but I was picking up about 7 networks on a/b/g. |
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