Observations after week !

[Mr MOE]

Some of my personal observations after having our team play Lunacy in Week 1 at DC.

SIMILARITIES
The game is similar to many others in previous FIRST years in the following ways - qualification matches could be boring or exciting, depending on the teams playing; excitement picks up considerably during the elims.

DIFFERENCES
The game is different in that there is so much going on at once and the game pieces are so numerous, that it is extremely difficult to get a good idea what is going on over the whole of the field. I was watching our bot during a match when someone asked me what our partners were doing. I had to answer that I had absolutely no idea.

OTHER OBSERVATIONS

* Human players (Payload Specialists) might be as evenly important as the robot in this game as in any FIRST game. This definitely evens out the playing field.

* Moving at all times during the game, especially in autonomous, can save or kill your chances. Also, there are many tasks a robot can perform in autonomous that puts their alliance in a good position for the rest of the match.

* No-show team = empty trailer with rover wheel = death

* Get empty cells early and plan a way to increase the probability of converting them into points (many PS just fling them at the end - akin to a Hail Mary).

* Don't get pinned!!!

* Get ready to dance. Robots will be jockeying for position to score on each other. It is fun to watch a pair of bots circling like two physical competitors positioning themselves to strike (fencing and sumo wrestling comes to mind).

* Speed is always important. However, speed with maneuverability is key.

* Picking moon rocks off the crater floor is critical. There are many lying there just waiting to be harvested.

* It is very difficult to articulate a strategic plan with your alliance and then execute it real time. The field is constantly changing. Having a plan is important, but being able to change it on the fly and depend on communicating any changes to alliance partners during a match is extremely hard to do.

* Robots don't create penalties. People create penalties. This season, Payload Specialist penalties are in abundance. Train your PS (and those on your alliance) well.

* Many matches end in very close scores. A well-shot super cell or a few extra moon rocks in a trailer can win a match for you.

* Don't waste your moon rocks. Many Payload Specialists are throwing all their rocks early, sometimes at bots halfway across the field. Depending on the skill of your PS, the time left in the match, and where the opponent trailers are located, it may make sense to toss a rock or to hold it. Being smart is the key.

* Don't go by the real-time scoring to determine if you won or lost a match. Since matches are so close, a few points either way will determine a match. Real-time scoring is done by volunteers keying in points as they see them. It's hard to differentiate between 5-8 moon rocks in a trailer as they whiz by.

* Know who your alliance is up against in your next match. While G14 penalties did not really affect our team at the Washington DC regional, I can see them integrating more into team strategies. Also, be very careful in your last qualifying match. You don't want to take a double G14 into the eliminations with you.

* Videotaping these events (either for webcast or for screen projection at the event) should be done full-field with select close-ups. You just can't tell where the action will be and cameras have a tendency to miss alot of it.

That's all for now.

[kirtar]

Originally Posted by davidfv

I started this by just wanting to see how often G14 was applied in the eight regional events. In the qualification games, G14 came into effect only about 11% of the time. [NOTE: The only scores I found were AFTER Penalties were Assessed, I do not have the scores without penalties, so the numbers do not take into consideration the G14 prior to penalties, basically numbers might be off]

Finals
Number of Games: 17
Scores Reported: 17
Red wins: 14
Blue wins: 3
High Score: 121
Average Score: 63.9
Largest Point Differential: 69
G14 Penalties:
No Penalty 17 (100%)
2x Penalty 0 (0%)
3x Penalty 0 (0%)

I would be really interested if someone could parse the Twitter information and report on all the great data contained in those posts.

I'm not sure if somebody got to this first, but the first match in the Buckeye Regional Finals had a 2x G14. Also, in response to

6) They are enforcing G14. In qauls they'll only punish the offending team. So if when we tripled the score our HP lost both of his Super Cells for the next match.

In the above mentioned case, a volunteer walked around the field removing a cell from each of the alliance's fueling stations/outpost.

[Liz Smith]

From what I noticed, a lot of teams are not communicating effectively to their alliance partners.

Before the match, talk to your alliance partners. Make sure their payload specialist knows what your robot looks like, how it loads moon rocks, maybe you're going to want them to feed you empty cells, maybe you want them to throw a super cell into your robot so you can effectively deliver it across the field, maybe you want them to hold their moon rocks during autonomous so they can human load your robot.

Many times at NJ, did I see a robot at the outpost waiting for an empty cell (and the drivers yelling, waving, and banging on the players station glass), while the Payload Specialist just stared blankly at the rest of the field because they didn't even realize it was their alliance partner wanting to be fed.

A successful super cell exchange for the most part, will involve at least 2 of the teams on the alliance. The PS at the outpost, the robot delivering, and the PS at the fueling station. Communication and teamwork within the alliance is the key to this game IMO.

[Jeffy]

Originally Posted by EricH

Refs at KC weren't enforcing <G21> properly. Apparently, they weren't issuing penalties for throwing ECs.

They seemed to be calling those penalties whenever i watched it. It is possbile though, that some of the empty cells were thrown without the refferees noticing. The empty cells look very, very similar to moonrocks.

[Doug Leppard]

Originally Posted by Tottanka

No robot is dominant enough to win by itself - good strategy can stop any 1 robot...if you're against 2 good once it's a different story.

I do agree with this statement, but I made this observation.

I looked at the standings of each of the regionals. Some of the standard teams were at the top with 0-1 losses. It seems the best teams are still figuring out how to be on the top.

Do others see that?

[Daniel_LaFleur]

My observations from week 1 (at BAE):

A good human player is worth gold. Conversely a bad human player, especially one who doesn't know the rules, is detrimental to the entire alliance.

Dumper robots, especially fast dumpers, are deadly.

Pinning a robot does almost nothing unless your alliance can score on the pinned robot.

A dead, or no show, robot is almost guaranteed loss for that alliance.

The field control system still has a lot of bugs to work out. There were a ton of replayed matches at BAE.

Always keep moving, a stopped robot is nothing more than a target.

The regolith curls up on the edges. Our ball pickup is 3/4" above the surface and caught the regolith.

Supercells need to be planned.

[Tottanka]

Originally Posted by Doug Leppard

I do agree with this statement, but I made this observation.

I looked at the standings of each of the regionals. Some of the standard teams were at the top with 0-1 losses. It seems the best teams are still figuring out how to be on the top.

Do others see that?

Yes - but that is explained by the fact that strategy doesn't take much place during Qualifying matches. Those same teams you are talking about didn't do that well during elims in most, if not all cases.

I don't even think that there is any regional where the powerhouse you expecrted to win did so...maybe except BAE..

[rsisk]

Originally Posted by davidfv

I would be really interested if someone could parse the Twitter information and report on all the great data contained in those posts.

Here is a link to the twitter data in Excel format
http://www.robokong2493.com/frcMatchData.xls

The colums are:

id MatchID MatchNumber MatchName EventID RedTeam1 RedTeam2 RedTeam3 BlueTeam1 BlueTeam2 BlueTeam3 RedScore BlueScore Tweeted EventName year week location

[davidfv]

Originally Posted by rsisk

Here is a link to the twitter data in Excel format
http://www.robokong2493.com/frcMatchData.xls

The colums are:

id MatchID MatchNumber MatchName EventID RedTeam1 RedTeam2 RedTeam3 BlueTeam1 BlueTeam2 BlueTeam3 RedScore BlueScore Tweeted EventName year week location

I do not want to turn this into a twitter data thread... just wondering if you parsed the cell count... if we had that we could figure out the penalties.

From Update #15
"There are no post match bonus points this year, so accessed penalties can be derived from adding up the score from the Super Cell, Empty Cell and Moon Rock counts and then subtracting the Final Score which will give you the alliances penalties."

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Doug Leppard

I looked at the standings of each of the regionals. Some of the standard teams were at the top with 0-1 losses. It seems the best teams are still figuring out how to be on the top.

Do others see that?

In my opinion, the teams who have thought about the impact and use of the trailer (very clever addition, GDC) and the flooring, and the PS, as well as the orbit balls, themselves, and everything else involved in spending time thinking about strategy and strategic plays are and will be the ones who rise to the top. Communication within the alliances will be an important factor as it has been in past games. Veteran teams, and some of the newer teams and rookies, who have spent time and continue to spend time in the strategy room and in working on communicating effectively, will increase their opportunities for doing well. They are 'figuring it out'.

I often wonder about the strategy and planning that goes into the NASA missions in space. Each one must have untold hours of time involved in achieving success and/or correcting problems.

[cziggy343]

from the webcasts that i saw... power dumpers indeed seemed to be much more effective than quick shooters. multiple, fast power dumps seemed to be more accurate, and thus more effective, than turreted, quick shooters.

[Chrono101]

Thoughts from KC:

1) Do not throw empty cells over the wall! Our PS did that and it's a 10 point penalty.

2) Be easy on the trigger - Our robot was a hybrid dumper-shooter that let all 7 balls go at once. Our driver pulled the trigger too early and we missed all 7 balls. Turns out we only lost by 4 points. Wait and be sure you have a clear target.

3) Autonomous - If someone on your team doesn't have an autonomous mode, you will lose, every time. Go around and make sure your alliance partners have something, even if it just runs straight ahead at full speed.

4) Check the hitch pin - If your trailer comes un-done during the match, you get an E-Stop and your robot just sits there, not helping anybody.

5) Don't bury the radio - This has already been stated, but you will have to be able to access your radio to install the WPA encryption. Make sure it is easy to access.

6) Check your cables - After you tether your robot in the pit, make sure you plug the ethernet cable back into the radio when you are done! There were more than a couple of teams at KC that forgot, which led to several on-field delays and a distraught FTA.

7) Careful with the tongs - if the PS at the Fueling Station touches a robot with the tongs through the airlock, it's a penalty. This happened more than once.Be very careful when trying to retrieve moon rocks and empty cells delivered by robots.

8) Make a plan - Always, always, always meet with your alliance prior to queuing to develop a strategy. Every time we did this we won by massive margins (one time it was 100 to 17). Know your teams capabilities and strengths, and how to use them against the other team's weaknesses and faults.


Personally, this was one of the most fun game modes I've ever played in. I was only the Commander, but it was so much fun trying to out maneuver the shooter robots. Running from the S.W.A.T team and trying to swing around to nail them with our "stinger" was some of the most fun I've ever had in FRC.

[FRC1672]

Originally Posted by Liz Smith

From what I noticed, a lot of teams are not communicating effectively to their alliance partners.

Before the match, talk to your alliance partners. Make sure their payload specialist knows what your robot looks like, how it loads moon rocks, maybe you're going to want them to feed you empty cells, maybe you want them to throw a super cell into your robot so you can effectively deliver it across the field, maybe you want them to hold their moon rocks during autonomous so they can human load your robot.

Many times at NJ, did I see a robot at the outpost waiting for an empty cell (and the drivers yelling, waving, and banging on the players station glass), while the Payload Specialist just stared blankly at the rest of the field because they didn't even realize it was their alliance partner wanting to be fed.

A successful super cell exchange for the most part, will involve at least 2 of the teams on the alliance. The PS at the outpost, the robot delivering, and the PS at the fueling station. Communication and teamwork within the alliance is the key to this game IMO.

In response to that, Our team PS was in the outpost most often, he actually liked it there. We converted at LEAST 1 empty cell to a SC in all of our matches except our first practice match, we were having communication issues with the field. Only our robot really focused on running empty cells. We were really successful in that and I believe in part why are average placement throughout the qualifiers was 9th, went as low as 5th, and finished at 14th.

Autonomous mode suggestions: have at least 3 autonomous codes 1 for each stating position. You are allowed to have a switch on your robot and when the switches are in a certain alignment you can start one way as opposed to the other. Also if you alliance partner does not have an autonomous mode it is not a death sentence but it does not help. Teams please just add a drive straight at least. And if you have proficient programmers program one of your robots autonomous starts to knock into your alliances robot this way you move them.
What our teams autonomous was in normal matches we drove almost directly to our human player so he could pass us an empty cell. we also had alternatives to knock our alliance members out of score positions of opposing HPs.

One final good note, I really liked the presentation of 1676's scouting system. It was ordered by the average points scored and points scored against. The net points column really helped highlighting strong teams who may have had not so good alliances. I suggest that at every regional this scouting system is used because it really helped to show good teams.

In conclusion i really enjoyed week 1 of Lunacy at the NJ regional.

[Luke Pike]

Originally Posted by cziggy343

from the webcasts that i saw... power dumpers indeed seemed to be much more effective than quick shooters. multiple, fast power dumps seemed to be more accurate, and thus more effective, than turreted, quick shooters.

Alliances shall not live by dumpers alone, but by every moon rock that proceedeth from the turret of a shooter.

Ok, ok, I'm done. Anyway, everybody has some great insights, so I'll just say this. HP's are very very important. They can be the winning factor in a match, so make sure you have a good one!

Also, super cells are the bomb. They can also determine a match.

[cziggy343]

Originally Posted by Luke Pike

Alliances shall not live by dumpers alone, but by every moon rock that proceedeth from the turret of a shooter.

excellent quote i didn't mean that shooters are completley worthless either... b/c i saw a few that were effective. i think that a lot more strategy needs to be used with a shooter, but they can definently be an integral part of an alliance.