Go to Post Unfortunately, you cannot always tell when some things are jokes on forums, because we only can rely on text and a limited number of smilies. - artdutra04 [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Technical > Control System
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 16-03-2009, 10:13
buchanan buchanan is offline
Registered User
FRC #2077 (Laser Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Wales, WI
Posts: 66
buchanan is just really nicebuchanan is just really nicebuchanan is just really nicebuchanan is just really nice
Re: Fried Ethernet Ports

2077 had a physical port failure in competition this weekend, followed by complete control system failure which we presume, but haven't proved, was related.

In setting up for our next-to-last match one of the ports broke (we use both, one for field and one for a dashboard/video feed to a laptop). They finished the match OK, minus the laptop connection. We didn't have time to swap in a backup for the next match, so we ran it the same way. This time nothing, as in "robot didn't move at all".

The odd thing is that when we brought it back to the pits and tethered, everything seemed fine.

It was a real downer to end the competition on this note, but more troublesome is having an undiagnosed major major system failure with another competition coming up soon. The plan now is just to get another DS and hope that fixes it (the broken unit is in the crate and on its way), but it would be great if someone could help us make sense of the situation. Any advice?
Reply With Quote
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 16-03-2009, 10:42
Mentor007's Avatar
Mentor007 Mentor007 is offline
Registered User
AKA: Paul Fleming
FRC #2228 (Cougar Tech)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Lima, NY USA
Posts: 15
Mentor007 is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Fried Ethernet Ports

The HALO TG110-S055N2RL part is available from Future Electronics for $4.70 each, http://www.futureelectronics.com, order online and have it a week later. Prior to voiding the warrantee by opening the case I suggest contacting FIRST to see if they will replace under warrantee. Based on what I saw on one of our damaged units (both ports) the HALO isolation transformers are getting damaged as the signal activity on either side of the 1:1 transformer is different. It is unclear whether the damage propagates beyond the HALO part to the Davidcom chip, but things looked promising at the Davidcom to HALO interfaces.

In the case of no waranntee replacement, I would spend the $5 or $10 to try the repair and then have a non-competition DS (better than a paperweight ). The part is 16 lead Surface Mount and can be replaced by someone with a little skill who is careful not to lift the copper pads.

We implemented a practice of always connecting a wire with series 1 MOhm resistor between the cRio case and the DS case prior to connecting the Ethernet line. The wire connection is maintained at all times during tethered operation and removed only after the Ethernet cable is unplugged. Prior to this we blew 3 DS Ethernet ports, since none.
Reply With Quote
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 16-03-2009, 10:43
heydowns's Avatar
heydowns heydowns is offline
Registered User
AKA: Jeff Downs
FRC #1511 (Rolling Thunder)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Ra-Cha-Cha
Posts: 142
heydowns has a reputation beyond reputeheydowns has a reputation beyond reputeheydowns has a reputation beyond reputeheydowns has a reputation beyond reputeheydowns has a reputation beyond reputeheydowns has a reputation beyond reputeheydowns has a reputation beyond reputeheydowns has a reputation beyond reputeheydowns has a reputation beyond reputeheydowns has a reputation beyond reputeheydowns has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Fried Ethernet Ports

Quote:
Originally Posted by buchanan View Post
2077 had a physical port failure in competition this weekend, followed by complete control system failure which we presume, but haven't proved, was related.

In setting up for our next-to-last match one of the ports broke (we use both, one for field and one for a dashboard/video feed to a laptop). They finished the match OK, minus the laptop connection. We didn't have time to swap in a backup for the next match, so we ran it the same way. This time nothing, as in "robot didn't move at all".

The odd thing is that when we brought it back to the pits and tethered, everything seemed fine.

It was a real downer to end the competition on this note, but more troublesome is having an undiagnosed major major system failure with another competition coming up soon. The plan now is just to get another DS and hope that fixes it (the broken unit is in the crate and on its way), but it would be great if someone could help us make sense of the situation. Any advice?
This is not an unfamiliar story... We saw this many times in the past two weekends.

When you are faced with "it doesn't work at all", the best thing you can do is to isolate the potential problem. In this case, I would suspect your second DS port is on the way out (probably loose in the board). When you get your hands on the DS again, connect it up to a PC with an appropriate IP address and see if the Eth light blinks rapidly. Check if the PC can "ping" the DS.
See if the light drops in and out if you GENTLY move the ethernet port.

Regardless of that type of diagnostic, and given that your team is using two ports anyway for your dashboard, at your next competition I would get over to Spare Parts and try to get a loaner DS.
Reply With Quote
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 16-03-2009, 10:51
Tom Bottiglieri Tom Bottiglieri is offline
Registered User
FRC #0254 (The Cheesy Poofs)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 3,185
Tom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Fried Ethernet Ports

We broke both of the ports off of our first DS. Between tethering the robot and connecting to the field, the connectors had just had it. From what I can see, the plastic housing over the ports doesn't seem to be connected anywhere but board itself, and could probably use a bit of strain relief.

Our short term solution is a couple of short cat5 cables with F/F adapters on the end. Does anyone have insight on whether that would be competition legal? Or should I go to the Q&A with this?

Last edited by Tom Bottiglieri : 16-03-2009 at 10:53.
Reply With Quote
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 16-03-2009, 11:31
Chris_Elston's Avatar
Chris_Elston Chris_Elston is online now
Controls Engineer
AKA: chakorules
FRC #1501 (Team THRUST)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Huntington, Indiana
Posts: 746
Chris_Elston has a reputation beyond reputeChris_Elston has a reputation beyond reputeChris_Elston has a reputation beyond reputeChris_Elston has a reputation beyond reputeChris_Elston has a reputation beyond reputeChris_Elston has a reputation beyond reputeChris_Elston has a reputation beyond reputeChris_Elston has a reputation beyond reputeChris_Elston has a reputation beyond reputeChris_Elston has a reputation beyond reputeChris_Elston has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Fried Ethernet Ports

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bottiglieri View Post
Our short term solution is a couple of short cat5 cables with F/F adapters on the end. Does anyone have insight on whether that would be competition legal? Or should I go to the Q&A with this?
Tom,

We've got a thread over here:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...threadid=75281

And Bob is saying no, it's not legal.
__________________
Team T.H.R.U.S.T. 1501
Download all of our past robot's source code here:Repository

Favorite CD quote:
"That can't be their 'bot. not nearly enough (if any) rivets to be a 1501 machine." ~RogerR: Team #1369
Reply With Quote
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 16-03-2009, 13:59
heydowns's Avatar
heydowns heydowns is offline
Registered User
AKA: Jeff Downs
FRC #1511 (Rolling Thunder)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Ra-Cha-Cha
Posts: 142
heydowns has a reputation beyond reputeheydowns has a reputation beyond reputeheydowns has a reputation beyond reputeheydowns has a reputation beyond reputeheydowns has a reputation beyond reputeheydowns has a reputation beyond reputeheydowns has a reputation beyond reputeheydowns has a reputation beyond reputeheydowns has a reputation beyond reputeheydowns has a reputation beyond reputeheydowns has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Fried Ethernet Ports

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bottiglieri View Post
We broke both of the ports off of our first DS. Between tethering the robot and connecting to the field, the connectors had just had it. From what I can see, the plastic housing over the ports doesn't seem to be connected anywhere but board itself, and could probably use a bit of strain relief.
You are right on based on what we've seen here. There is nothing but enough solder to make the connectors electrically connect to the board, based on two different failed DS's we had the opportunity to look at after two other teams decided to open theirs near the end of build season.
Also appears to be some amount of epoxy, but that won't cut it as we are seeing.

Quote:
Our short term solution is a couple of short cat5 cables with F/F adapters on the end. Does anyone have insight on whether that would be competition legal? Or should I go to the Q&A with this?
Not legal unfortunately. I hope FIRST reconsiders given the near epidemic failures.

If you do not use both connectors on the field one potential solution is to leave a secured cable connected to one of the ports and use that to interface to a small switch. When not on field, connect this to a 5-port switch/hub (use the kit one with wireless disabled if you want) and plug your robot and programming or debugging laptop in to that switch.
This will cut out any non-match wear on the ports, and has the side benefit of some limited ESD protection for the ethernet port.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dead DS ethernet ports? Post here! Jon Stratis General Forum 17 10-03-2009 21:03
DS Ethernet ports coming loose phobeste FRC Control System 1 02-02-2009 21:35
Ethernet camera kamocat Programming 9 06-09-2008 08:09
Embedded Ethernet? Andrew Blair Technical Discussion 6 22-06-2006 21:12


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 22:41.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi