3rd events starting

[johnr]

Ok, 3rd events are starting for teams in Michigan were they do not get any points toward states. They were given this chance to play at a reduced rate to help round out the fields to forty. I can see how their points will be given to the next team at the end of qualifying rounds, but how are they going to distribute the points after selections and finals? What happens if the #2 captian is a 3rd event team? Who gets the points? What happens if the 3rd event team is 2nd selection for 8th seed and they win it all? So many different ways this could play out. Is this all written out some place?
Then there is the question if you are a 3rd event team do you except invitation to play in finals? I say yes as long as their points are given to next deserving team. I just hope this doesn't cause hard feelings among the teams.

[Craig Roys]

There is another issue here also. The team that is there for a 3rd event knows that they are not getting any points for it so their intensity level may not be the same as teams that are still fighting for position. This could affect things for teams that are paired with them and the alliances that they play against.

I know that GP would require that every team play as hard as they can and that everyone wants to win when they play, but it would be only natural for that intensity level to be a little lower for a team with nothing on the line.

Please note that I am not suggesting that any team would slack off for matches - I don't believe there is any FIRST team that would do this. I'm just saying that the extra level of desperation may not be there.

Hopefully this won't be and issue at all.

[GaryVoshol]

The only thing I can find in the Michigan rules is a statement that 3rd event teams will not earn points toward the state championship.

I have to believe though that those points will simply disappear from the event. For example, suppose Alliance Captains #4 and #7 were at their third event, as was the 14th pick overall. You can't just pass those points down to the next eligible teams, because you don't know what teams that would be. There were three teams at the end that were never picked, so they don't appear in the picking order.

Similarly, suppose the finalist alliance was made up of all 3rd event teams. You can't say those points now go to one of the semi-finalist alliances.

And you can't restrict teams in their third event from competing in the finals. That would restrict the picking ability of other teams. Say the top ranked team wants a certain team in their alliance, a team competing in their third event. Are we going to say they can't choose that team which could help them earn points? And the team can't simply decline the invitation; maybe that team would become an alliance captain on their own and compete against the #1 alliance.

About the only thing FiM could do is instruct judges not to give awards to teams that are in their third event. But that kind of taints the winners of the awards - they'll never know if they were the best team or just the best non-restricted team for that award.

[johnr]

Wow,i never even thought of more then one third event team being on an alliance. I hope they(FiM) have a plan. As far as points just disappearing,i think that might cause more hard feelings. What if a team was on the bubble and needed those points to go to states? I imagine something like,"Why are they even here. All they did was mess our points up." I hope FiM says something before the matches start.

[Kimmeh]

A mentor and have had this discussion multiple times from various angles. Here's my best explanation of what we think we understand:

It could be in a team's best interest to play with a 3rd event team. If 2nd event team is on an alliance with a 3rd event team as captain, the 2nd event team is in a better spot to earn points. The 3rd event team is "locked in" on points and cannot earn anymore. The 2nd event team will still earn those points.

The biggest downside we found to it was that there is a possibility of a 3rd event team that didn't too so well in their first 2 and winning in their 3rd. Granted this is not the goal of FIRST, but from a trying to get to Atlanta viewpoint, winning that 3rd event amounts to "That's too bad, but Congratulations anyway!"

I don't believe that a 3rd event team would slack off in their matches. The adrenaline alone should prevent that, if not, GP should.

[Joe_Widen]

Perhap FiM could implement a best 2 out of X events attended. So every team that attends an event has their points counted up, then FiM takes their two best competitions (point wise) and uses that as their standings for state? I know this is a little late now, but maybe for next year?